> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:32:36 -0000
> From: "Xenophile"
> I don't think that Europe, Australia, America, Japan, etc. are in any
> danger of starving to death anytime soon, as such rich countries have
> enough economic momentum to last through the switch from oil and coal
> to nuclear, powersat, and whatever else. There could be inflation and
> shortages, but not wide-spread starvation IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD. In
> the undeveloped world there could be a lot of misery.
>
>> ta
>>
>> Ralph
Between them China and India make up most of the undeveloped world's
population. Their economies are booming. Back in the 70's high oil
prices lead to inflation, unemployment and reccession. Today's high
oil prices has lead to cheap Chinese TV sets . I remember major famines
in 1970's India. Today I purchased a prepacked curry fromthe supermarket
made in India.
The misery in places like Africa has little to do with lack of energy or
resources.
Its because lead by murderous dictators and corrupt incompetent governments.
Powersats or no powersats are not going to change that. Imperial rule and
acceptance of the civillised mans burden might, but thats out of fashion
these days.
ta
Ralph
>
> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:42:33 -0600
> From: "Combs, Mike"
> Subject: Mass and strategies
>
> From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ralph buttigieg
>
> what will happen. What we need to get started is a very modest mining
> camp on the moon, a mass catcher, and orbital ore refineries and
> manufacturing facilities. Now granted, the latter two will doubtless
> mass a good deal more than the ISS. But they won't be nearly as big as
> the terrestrial facilities we tend to think of. O'Neill put a good deal
> of thought into very small systems which were capable of
> self-replication, given a steady supply of raw material.
Yes, and all those facilities are not needed for Mars colonies. You don't
need to drag asteriods or build lunar mass drivers. In the time required
to do that Mars will be smelling of babies.
ta
Ralph
> Message: 6
G'day,
be lower taxes and cheaper food for Europeans. Those subsidies
are not there to encourage efficiant food production but to subsidise
farmers for purely political purposes. Hurry up with the "breakdown"
I say.
ta
Ralph
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:42:33 -0600
> From: "Combs, Mike"
> Subject: Mass and strategies
>
>> There are experts who would disagree. It is possible SPS never happened
> because there are too many alternate ways of getting energy here on
> Earth. But I think it's equally possible that SPS never happened
> because there was a sudden resumption in the flow of inexpensive oil
> from the Middle East, and so the impetus for finding alternatives died.
> But in the present era, our concerns about greenhouse gas emissions and
> about the economic strengthening of radical Islamic regimes who wish us
> ill might provide reasons for coming back to the SPS concept.
I'm sure there are experts who disagree. But they are not getting much
money to back their views. Biomass and synfuels are. Canada is producing oil
from tar sands. I can allready buy petrol with an ethanol mix. No real
interest in SPS I'm afraid.
ta
Ralph
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "ralph buttigieg"
> don't need to drag asteriods or build lunar mass drivers. In the
time > required to do that Mars will be smelling of babies.
I have yet to read anyone offer a plausible explanation for what all
those people on Mars will be doing as they are making their babies.
Care to give that question a try?
TangoMan
On 1/28/06, victoriatangoman wrote:
>
> --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "ralph buttigieg"
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, and all those facilities are not needed for Mars colonies. You
> > don't need to drag asteriods or build lunar mass drivers. In the
> time > required to do that Mars will be smelling of babies.
>
> I have yet to read anyone offer a plausible explanation for what all
> those people on Mars will be doing as they are making their babies.
> Care to give that question a try?
>
> TangoMan
>
> It's really quite simple. We haven't been there, so we don't know.
trying each out.
It'll probable be several hundred years before we know. After all, we don't
know what is underground in parts of the western United States. And how
long have they been settled?
I am flattered that you think I'm omnipresent enough to know what is useful
about Mars.
When Jefferson added the Lousiana Purchase to the United States, many people
thought the government had wasted taxpayers money.
Today we see the same thing about both Mars and the asteroids, depending on
which set of True Believers one listens to.
As for what use Mars and the asteroid Belt have.
They have the same use as a new born baby.
You and I will both be long dead when the results are in.
I suspect the answer is both.
Rick Brooks
>
Rick Brooks
On 1/29/06, victoriatangoman wrote:> I have yet to read anyone offer a plausible explanation for what all> those people on Mars will be doing as they are making their babies.I believe it's called 'having sex' :-pAnd there's not going to be much to do on Mars *except* make babiesfor quite a while :-)> TangoMan---Ian Woollard"frustra fit per plura quod potest fieri per pauciora" "in vain we do by many which can be done by means of fewer"
In a message dated 1/28/2006 7:49:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tango_dancer@... writes:
> I have yet to read anyone offer a plausible explanation for what all
> those people on Mars will be doing as they are making their babies.
> Care to give that question a try?
>
> TangoMan
Please clarify what you mean by that. I have almost all of the answers to
this kind of question but I want to understand exactly what kind of answer you
want.
Thank You
John Wayne Smith, CEO
1000 Planets, Inc.
Building a Road to the Stars.
A Libertarian Candidate for Florida Governor 2006
203 W Magnolia Street
Leesburg, Florida 34748
Phone 352 787 5550
E mail: JWSmith42000@...
ceo@...
what will they be doing on mars the same thing they"we" don on earth try to survive as cofortably as posible
> Yes, and all those facilities are not needed for Mars colonies. You
> don't need to drag asteriods or build lunar mass drivers. In the
time > required to do that Mars will be smelling of babies.
I have yet to read anyone offer a plausible explanation for what all
those people on Mars will be doing as they are making their babies.
Care to give that question a try?
TangoMan
From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ralph buttigieg
> lower taxes and cheaper food for Europeans. Those subsidies are
> not there to encourage efficiant food production but to subsidise
> farmers for purely political purposes. Hurry up with the
> "breakdown" I say.
And I'm sure there are many Third World farmers who would second that
motion.
Regards,
Mike Combs
From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ralph buttigieg
> >
> > What we need to get started is a very modest mining
> > camp on the moon, a mass catcher, and orbital ore refineries and
> > manufacturing facilities. Now granted, the latter two will
doubtless
> > mass a good deal more than the ISS. But they won't be nearly as big
> > as the terrestrial facilities we tend to think of. O'Neill put a
good
> > deal of thought into very small systems which were capable of
> > self-replication, given a steady supply of raw material.
>
> Yes, and all those facilities are not needed for Mars colonies.
Excuse me? Mars colonies may not need an L-2 mass catcher, but they
most certainly will require Martian mining camps, Martian ore
refineries, and Martian manufacturing facilities. The only issue of
contention is: Will it be easier or more economical to set all these
things up in HEO or on the surface of Mars.
> You don't need to drag asteriods or build lunar mass drivers.
> In the time required to do that Mars will be smelling of babies.
The ability to economically fabricate large areas suitable for
inhabitation will have to precede, not follow, major increases in
population size. To do this will require the setting up of industrial
infrastructure totally from scratch, the engineering of large pressure
vessels, and the setting up and balancing of closed ecologies. Please
note that these requirements will be much the same whether we're trying
to do this in HEO or the Martian surface.
Developing Mars may not necessarily require a mass driver on the
surface, but most terraforming scenarios do indeed involve moving
asteroids around.
Regards,
Mike Combs
> The misery in places like Africa has little to do with lack of
> energy or resources.
> Its because lead by murderous dictators and corrupt incompetent
> governments. Powersats or no powersats are not going to change that.
> Imperial rule and acceptance of the civillised mans burden might
incompetent government, and get the same thing from us at half the
price. It's been tried. Tribute always flows from the subjects to
the seat of empire: all roads lead to Rome and all colonial railways
lead from the mines to the ports.
I agree with the diagnosis of bad governance, just not the
prescription of going back to their old supplier of the same stuff.
> I can allready buy petrol with an ethanol mix.
> The only way we'll find out whether Mars or the asteroids are best
> is by trying each out.
Centauri before we can figure out that asteroid or lunar material in
HEO is a better way to start?
We can do some calculations of travel time and launch costs, and there
are some spectroscopic observations of what's there.
On 1/31/06, Ian Woollard wrote:
(...)
> The Brazilians produced it for some time; the process used was much
> more efficient than that used in America; they used slightly different
> techniques, for example they built plants to distill the alcohol that
> used the husk of the sugar cane for powering the distillation, and it
> was cost effective done that way.
(...)
fact with the introduction flex cars alcohol as a massively used fuel
is undergoing a renaissance. And I agree that energy efficiency of the
process used here perhaps cannot be reproduced in the US.