From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sraj

> All that Vega is trying to say is that there is a natural
> cycle we should try to respect. Having too many old people
> around is not a very good idea, since according to nature's
> plan the young replace the old.

According to nature's plan, the near-sighted will be eaten by the
leopards, while those with better vision live long enough to have
children. As a wearer of eyeglasses, I'd like to vote against doing
things in accordance with "nature's plans".

Yes, I found the ending of "Zardoz" to be quite touching, and even
emotionally satisfying. That said, in the future we may no more
consider 150 or 200 year life-spans to be any more an intolerable
interference in nature's plan than we presently do eyeglasses, hearing
aids, or insulin.

Regards,

Mike Combs

It is also possible that the young may put the old in the pot as the Head
Hunters of Borneo did : - ) (Joking)

Regards
Selvaraj

From: "Combs, Mike"

From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sraj

> All that Vega is trying to say is that there is a natural
> cycle we should try to respect. Having too many old people
> around is not a very good idea, since according to nature's
> plan the young replace the old.

According to nature's plan, the near-sighted will be eaten by the
leopards, while those with better vision live long enough to have
children. As a wearer of eyeglasses, I'd like to vote against doing
things in accordance with "nature's plans".

Yes, I found the ending of "Zardoz" to be quite touching, and even
emotionally satisfying. That said, in the future we may no more
consider 150 or 200 year life-spans to be any more an intolerable
interference in nature's plan than we presently do eyeglasses, hearing
aids, or insulin.

Regards,

Mike Combs

Another thought:

I am an old person (or is it young), going to celebrate my 150th birthday
next year. Who would I like to have around me on my birthday. (a) Ten
persons who are 200 years old (b) Ten persons 100 years old (c) Ten persons
10 years old.

Regards
Selvaraj

From: "Combs, Mike"

From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sraj

> All that Vega is trying to say is that there is a natural
> cycle we should try to respect. Having too many old people
> around is not a very good idea, since according to nature's
> plan the young replace the old.

According to nature's plan, the near-sighted will be eaten by the
leopards, while those with better vision live long enough to have
children. As a wearer of eyeglasses, I'd like to vote against doing
things in accordance with "nature's plans".

Yes, I found the ending of "Zardoz" to be quite touching, and even
emotionally satisfying. That said, in the future we may no more
consider 150 or 200 year life-spans to be any more an intolerable
interference in nature's plan than we presently do eyeglasses, hearing
aids, or insulin.

Regards,

Mike Combs

If memory serves me correctly, the people who lived in Zardoz had
made themselves immortal and having lived long waistful lives they
all wanted to die.

A more disturbing vision would be Logan's Run in which the state
kills everyone over Thirty in great cerimony (if memory serves me
correctly) if that is somebody's idea of natural cycles I'm against
it.

Anyway, my grandmother lived well into her nineties. Her final years
were as a semi-imbecile under constant supervision of nurses who had
to wear diapers and a bib who could not remember what the time of day
was or recognize her relatives. My great grandmother lived just as
long and spent her remaining years that way but also in a wheelchair.

I don't believe in assisted suicide but I don't believe in the
overmedicated way we do things with the elderly either. It is a waste
of money and of lives. Maybe I'm too old fashioned for the 'modern'
world.

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Combs, Mike"
>
> From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sraj
>
> > All that Vega is trying to say is that there is a natural
> > cycle we should try to respect. Having too many old people
> > around is not a very good idea, since according to nature's
> > plan the young replace the old.
>
> According to nature's plan, the near-sighted will be eaten by the
> leopards, while those with better vision live long enough to have
> children. As a wearer of eyeglasses, I'd like to vote against doing
> things in accordance with "nature's plans".
>
> Yes, I found the ending of "Zardoz" to be quite touching, and even
> emotionally satisfying. That said, in the future we may no more
> consider 150 or 200 year life-spans to be any more an intolerable
> interference in nature's plan than we presently do eyeglasses,
hearing

From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of terrierkeeper

> If memory serves me correctly, the people who lived in Zardoz
> had made themselves immortal and having lived long waistful
> lives they all wanted to die.

True, but I was thinking of the very last scene; that series of
lapse-dissolves where we see that the Eternal who ran off with Connery
had acquiesced to "nature's plan" where human lives were concerned.

> A more disturbing vision would be Logan's Run in which the state
> kills everyone over Thirty in great cerimony (if memory serves me
> correctly)

Yeah, I've been getting reminded of that one too.

> I don't believe in assisted suicide but I don't believe in the
> overmedicated way we do things with the elderly either.

I believe in life extension research, and in the right to chose one's
moment of death, both.

> It is a waste of money and of lives.

I believe it should be up to the individual whether or not to waste
their money trying to extend their life. In too many cases, the
decision is not left up to them.

Regards,

Mike Combs

in Logans Run, the ppl were told that if they were successfull in a
game called renew, they would have another 21 year (book) or 30 years
(movie), but it was a lie.

immortality would be very boring after a while, esp if there was no
way to end it.

the problems your grandmother (and mine too by the way) faced were
due to defeats created by our genes and diseases. they have also
found that there is a link to the food you eat from childhood on is
connected to them, but they still dont have all the particulars. let
me ask you this. if you could have choisen to let your grandmother
die at the age she did under the condition she was in, or have her
for another decade as she was when she was 40 which would you choise.
no brainer, huh? would you say that that was the natural order of
things and say that she had to be like she was or go against
the "natural order" and feel younger for a few more year.

i know which i would have given my grandmother.

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "terrierkeeper"
>
> If memory serves me correctly, the people who lived in Zardoz had
> made themselves immortal and having lived long waistful lives they
> all wanted to die.
>
> A more disturbing vision would be Logan's Run in which the state
> kills everyone over Thirty in great cerimony (if memory serves me
> correctly) if that is somebody's idea of natural cycles I'm against
> it.
>
> Anyway, my grandmother lived well into her nineties. Her final
years
> were as a semi-imbecile under constant supervision of nurses who
had
> to wear diapers and a bib who could not remember what the time of
day
> was or recognize her relatives. My great grandmother lived just as
> long and spent her remaining years that way but also in a
wheelchair.
>
> I don't believe in assisted suicide but I don't believe in the
> overmedicated way we do things with the elderly either. It is a
waste

> From: sraj
> I am an old person (or is it young), going to celebrate my
> 150th birthday
> next year. Who would I like to have around me on my birthday. (a) Ten
> persons who are 200 years old (b) Ten persons 100 years old
> (c) Ten persons
> 10 years old.

Ten attractive ladies close to 18 years old. After working for 130 years my
savings could probably afford that, and I can't think of a better way to
celebrate my birthday.

Then again, I'm shallow that way.

John

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Combs, Mike"
>
> From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of terrierkeeper
>
> > If memory serves me correctly, the people who lived in Zardoz
> > had made themselves immortal and having lived long waistful
> > lives they all wanted to die.
>
> True, but I was thinking of the very last scene; that series of
> lapse-dissolves where we see that the Eternal who ran off with
Connery
> had acquiesced to "nature's plan" where human lives were concerned.
>
> > A more disturbing vision would be Logan's Run in which the state
> > kills everyone over Thirty in great cerimony (if memory serves me
> > correctly)
>
> Yeah, I've been getting reminded of that one too.
>
> > I don't believe in assisted suicide but I don't believe in the
> > overmedicated way we do things with the elderly either.
>
> I believe in life extension research, and in the right to chose
one's
> moment of death, both.
>
> > It is a waste of money and of lives.
>
> I believe it should be up to the individual whether or not to waste
> their money trying to extend their life. In too many cases, the
> decision is not left up to them.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike Combs

Stay out of retirement homes then. One of my mother's friends sent
her mother to one. First thing they did was decide what 'medications'
she needed. Real expensive stuff. Mother says half the income made by
these establishments is from these 'medications'.

I must admit I sympathise.

There are some things medications are good for. I do believe lunatics
should be required to take their meds. And there are some
medications that really are necessary but for old people there really
should be an Opt Out on a lot of these things that really don't do
any good.

At the same time I don't believe government should be paying to
support people for things they have done voluntarily to themselves or
their consequences. I don't believe in medicaid viagra. I don't
believe in medicaid paid for liver transplants for alcoholics and a
lot of other things.

LIFE can be an endless adventure as long as one has the desire to
seek it.

A large part of our lives is determined by our genes but also by the
stuff we're exposed to. One of my brothers died of cancer. My father
died of a heart attack. Many of the men of his side of the family die
of heart attacks.

I suspect there are natural limits in the body that will allow us to
maximize the years we have but in the end our bodies will wear out
and we get to meet our maker to account for what we have done during
our lives.

We can eat well. Not indulge in behaviors that are unhealthy.
(Somehow I suspect mentioning these things will cause some to call me
a 'bigot'). We can exorcise though I suppose some would say telling
people to exorcise is judgemental.

Problem is our tolerant society is not exactly being critical of a
lot of these unhealthy things other than smoking.

The closest thing to a national program of promoting and encouraging
health and healthy practices was Nazi Germany but the results
achieved are spectacular. Their anti-smkoing campaign and youth
physical fitness programs are peticularly well worth examining.

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" wrote:
>
> in Logans Run, the ppl were told that if they were successfull in a
> game called renew, they would have another 21 year (book) or 30
years
> (movie), but it was a lie.
>
> immortality would be very boring after a while, esp if there was no
> way to end it.
>
> the problems your grandmother (and mine too by the way) faced were
> due to defeats created by our genes and diseases. they have also
> found that there is a link to the food you eat from childhood on is
> connected to them, but they still dont have all the particulars.
let
> me ask you this. if you could have choisen to let your
grandmother
> die at the age she did under the condition she was in, or have her
> for another decade as she was when she was 40 which would you
choise.
> no brainer, huh? would you say that that was the natural order of
> things and say that she had to be like she was or go against
> the "natural order" and feel younger for a few more year.
>
> i know which i would have given my grandmother.
>
> --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "terrierkeeper"
> wrote:
> >
> > If memory serves me correctly, the people who lived in Zardoz had
> > made themselves immortal and having lived long waistful lives
they
> > all wanted to die.
> >
> > A more disturbing vision would be Logan's Run in which the state
> > kills everyone over Thirty in great cerimony (if memory serves me
> > correctly) if that is somebody's idea of natural cycles I'm
against
> > it.
> >
> > Anyway, my grandmother lived well into her nineties. Her final
> years
> > were as a semi-imbecile under constant supervision of nurses who
> had
> > to wear diapers and a bib who could not remember what the time of
> day
> > was or recognize her relatives. My great grandmother lived just
as
> > long and spent her remaining years that way but also in a
> wheelchair.
> >
> > I don't believe in assisted suicide but I don't believe in the
> > overmedicated way we do things with the elderly either. It is a
> waste
> > of money and of lives. Maybe I'm too old fashioned for
the 'modern'