Don wrote that his personal space colony would be "something like
the Haight Ashbury idealistic movement" which is sure interesting to
me, since I was there from 1965 to 1979,living on the Panhandle.
Maybe Don and I already know each other. I was the skinny English
major who dropped acid every day before class, got straight A's, and
received her diploma in the San Francisco jail for demonstating for
increased minority admissions to San Francisco State College, oh,
and who started topless lunchtime sunbathing among the girls. (Now
do you remember me, Don?) The Haight sure was idealistic, but it was
not hedonistic and it most certainly was not irreligious. In my
immediate circle of friends (most of whom came to San Francisco with
me from Alabama where we had been working in the civil rights
movement; it was that migration of civil rights workers that was the
first wave of hippies into the Haight) there was an ex-nun (me), an
ex seminarian from Canada, two Quakers, a mormon, a Jewish couple
one of whom was black, and an assortment of black and white fervent
southern protestants. The only person who would have called himself
an atheist then is a lawyer now.

The values we learned in our faiths in the religious fifties and
sixties in the US were the values the Haight functioned on, albeit
rather creatively applied and perhaps ultimately misapplied. We
served the poor--the Black Panther Party was just a Franciscan
outpost, as far as I was concerned, and I was not alone. We made
love, not war, and lots of it--and that's not the same as either
masturbation or pornography or prostitution, and in fact all those
sad substitutions for love were cheerly despised, as they should be.
There were gays and they were discrete. We had lots of babies, at
home whenever possible, and named them for flowers, and none of the
guys felt put upon by the responsibility and liked being fathers and
putting in gardens and keeping the vw campers on the road--families
were cool. We did a ton of business (or maybe I should say business
by the ton, kilo by kilo) without benefit of police or government
oversight, because ripping off was uncool. Truth was valued. In
fact, the ten commandments were pretty well observed. The Haight
only got seedy when they were no longer observed, when we got so
stoned we forgot the faiths that formed us.

I am arguing, in fact, that we go back to those values so we can
have the Haight again, on earth and in space. We've gotten lost.

Jan

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Don Davis"
>
> --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "janet_baker76"
> wrote:
> > I said I am using the Catholic Church's
> > defintion of ideal sexual morality as enunciated in the
catechism
> > and calling this definition Christian. I certainly stand by that
> > definition, and I'm allowed, since I was the person discussing
an
> > ideal morality in the first place, one kinder and gentler to
women,
> > kids, and the world than the one promised by liberality.
>
> Alright, so you are a fan of Catholicism, that gives your numerous
> extremist comments suitable context. I'm sure you will be among the
> first in line when the Church of Rome takes applications for its
> colony. If you think people who have a different view of society
are
> morally inferior, whatever their religious world views, that is
your
> right and I hope you are able to find an ideal society to your
liking
> along with the myraids of others who will be filling space colonies
> with their brands of like minded people.
> My space colony will be something like Burning Man
> (http://www.donaldedavis.com/PARTS/BMINTRO.html) before the
> harrassment by the BLM was commonplace and something like the
Haight
> Ashbury idealistic movement when people were open to new ideas, new
> living patterns, new music and new states of consiousness. There
will
> be no guns, not even for the cops, no snooping into our bedrooms,
> bladders, and brains, no bigotry and especially no imposition of
> restrictions based on religious values. Consenting adults can do
what
> they wish among themselves without some athority figures deciding
to
> try to make the private life of others their business.
> A strength of the space colony idea is that it offers hope to
those
> who yearn for living according to their ideals, too often something
> being taken away by 'muddled majority rule' restrictions enforced
by
> uniformed thugs with guns. This applies to liberals, John Birchers,
> nudists, religious fanatics Christian or not, and 'Dick and Jane'
> milktoast American ideal family groups. All deserve a chance to
create
> societies to their liking in independent enviornments. All deserve
to
> be left alone by others.
> Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in ruling ranks of
society
> who take an unhealthy interest in what consenting adults do among
each
> other, what they read and what kind of intoxicants and intimacy
they
> enjoy among themselves. They seek to wipe out such things that
they do
> not understand and think should not exist. They wish entire groups
of
> otherwise functional people would dissappear.
> When governments try to regulate the reproductive lives of people
> under their power, the results are often ugly. We have the case of
> Nazi Germany, which outlawed abortion as soon as they got in power,
> and generally disenfranchised women from the work force. America
> encouraged women to work, and this was one of the deciding factors
in
> our victory in World War II. More recently, we have pre revolution
> Romania and present day China, one which monitored monthly cycles
to
> register and force the completion of all pregnancies, the latter
doing
> so to enforce abortions. Both are repungnant and contrary to common
> decency, if there can be said to be such a thing in the
multicultural
> cacaphony that is the human Race.
> The idea that we have to compulsively abundantly breed is an
> ingrained product of ancient high death rate conditions, today
people
> are cared for so well compared to even 100 years ago that we have
to
> ease up on the production rate in order to avoid having
enviornmental
> conditions get out of hand in order to maintain decent standards of
> living for all these people. Women will try to limit the number of
> children they have as they become aware of better lives they can
have
> by rising above third world standards of living. Once mass
> communication is available, things people really want to learn
about
> are propagated and the resultd speak for themselves.
> Part of the very desire for Space Colonization is an excersize of
> the world view given us by science and philosophy that we can
direct
> our own destiny as a species. It is a result of mass ability to
think
> about such things without relying on power figure in government and
> clergy to do our thinking for us. it is a sign that 'We are as Gods
> and we might asd well start getting good at it!'
> I can remember as a child, and I'm not quite old yet, a world
with
> only half the population of the world of today. That is a
terrifying
> thing to contemplete when you consider it took from the beginning
of
> Humanity roughly up to a million years ago (by Human I mean someone
> with sufficent genetic compatability to modern people to have
healthy
> children with) to the early 1800's for the population to reach ONE
> BILLION. That number was added to our fragile Earth in the last 12
> years!!! How much can we ask of poor Gaiea? If there is a mass
> realization of this state of affairs in the industrialized workd it
> should be taken as a good sign. Even if the population declines to
a
> fraction of that of today that should be seen as only a smooth
> progress to an ideal population level. The number of people really
> required to keep the Human race going isn't really large at all.
> It is suggested that the 'ignorant third world breeders' will
> ultimately take over the Earth because the industrialized world
will
> die out. Let me repeat that only a replacement level at a level far
> less than today is really needed. If a few generations don't quite
> replace themselves it will mean a less crowded richer society that
> will be emulated by others made aware of why such places are so
> desirable. They created their reality for themselves and as people
> become informed and elevated above third world status they will
also
> create better realities for themselves. Just as in Soviet Russia,
> efforts to keep mass media away from young people will be doomed to
> failure. Some day even Afghanistan will be filled with televisions
and
> increasingly dissatisfied youth sick of Islamic restrictions on
their

Excellent post, Jan.

The corrupt yet preacher wannabe's we now have leading the nation are, as
the saying goes, neither moral nor the majority.

Further, there's no Jesus in the "Christian" reich. With their disdain for
the poor and homeless and constant glorification of the rich, they should be
called "Paulians" or "AntiChristians".

Thankfully, even with all the nonsense - Ann Coulter, FOX News, 700 Club,
conservative talk radio, etc - the American people appear to be buying it
less as much these days and the approval polls for this wacky president and
GOP leadership are are still dropping into icky-icky land.

This scum don't work and they don't pay the bills and they don't even check
on the president like they're required under law.

Time to clean house.

George
cygo.com

On 6/24/06, janet_baker76 wrote:

If anything can be learned from the passing years it is that Polls
and elections rarely have the same results. Indeed the ones getting
clobbered in those 'polls' are the self styled moderates and those
who are trying to 'move to the center'.

Then again this nation had similar pains a hundred years ago
cleaning out corrupt government practices.

Democrats who are certainly not the party of the workong people or of
democracy in practice are getting nowhere trying to relive the failed
social experiments of the sixties and seventies. They're losing on
the referendums. They're losing at the elections.In some elections so
desperate are tehy to return to power they're running Conservatives.

America is coming to its sences and moving to the right. Problem is
some Republicans still don't understand or want that to be true.

Once this mess gets cleaned through this nation can start looing
skyward.

PS. from an earlier question. Actually Poland did not suffer Five
Million civilian fatalities. The Number given in the Holocaust
Chronicle is Three Million and some sources dispute that. As for
reasons for the discrepency. Some names may have been couted twice.
Some Jews may have been included among the Polish dead though in life
none would be counted among the Polish living. Another though not
mentioned is many Germans living in pre-war Poland were forced to
either reclassify themselves as Poles or lose their property promptly
resumed their former identities once Germany mocved in. Also One
Point Seven million Poles reclassified themeselvs ethnicly German
(Volksdeutsch Class Three or Class Four) when the Germans made
similar plans for them.

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, cygonaut
>
> Excellent post, Jan.
>
> The corrupt yet preacher wannabe's we now have leading the nation
are, as
> the saying goes, neither moral nor the majority.
>
> Further, there's no Jesus in the "Christian" reich. With their
disdain for
> the poor and homeless and constant glorification of the rich, they
should be
> called "Paulians" or "AntiChristians".
>
> Thankfully, even with all the nonsense - Ann Coulter, FOX News, 700
Club,
> conservative talk radio, etc - the American people appear to be
buying it
> less as much these days and the approval polls for this wacky
president and
> GOP leadership are are still dropping into icky-icky land.
>
> This scum don't work and they don't pay the bills and they don't
even check
> on the president like they're required under law.
>
> Time to clean house.
>
> George
> cygo.com
>
> On 6/24/06, janet_baker76 wrote:
> >
> > Don wrote that his personal space colony would be "something
like
> > the Haight Ashbury idealistic movement" which is sure interesting
to
> > me, since I was there from 1965 to 1979,living on the Panhandle.
> > Maybe Don and I already know each other. I was the skinny English
> > major who dropped acid every day before class, got straight A's,
and
> > received her diploma in the San Francisco jail for demonstating
for
> > increased minority admissions to San Francisco State College, oh,
> > and who started topless lunchtime sunbathing among the girls. (Now
> > do you remember me, Don?) The Haight sure was idealistic, but it
was
> > not hedonistic and it most certainly was not irreligious. In my
> > immediate circle of friends (most of whom came to San Francisco
with
> > me from Alabama where we had been working in the civil rights
> > movement; it was that migration of civil rights workers that was
the
> > first wave of hippies into the Haight) there was an ex-nun (me),
an
> > ex seminarian from Canada, two Quakers, a mormon, a Jewish couple
> > one of whom was black, and an assortment of black and white
fervent
> > southern protestants. The only person who would have called
himself
> > an atheist then is a lawyer now.
> >
> > The values we learned in our faiths in the religious fifties and
> > sixties in the US were the values the Haight functioned on, albeit
> > rather creatively applied and perhaps ultimately misapplied. We
> > served the poor--the Black Panther Party was just a Franciscan
> > outpost, as far as I was concerned, and I was not alone. We made
> > love, not war, and lots of it--and that's not the same as either
> > masturbation or pornography or prostitution, and in fact all those
> > sad substitutions for love were cheerly despised, as they should
be.
> > There were gays and they were discrete. We had lots of babies, at
> > home whenever possible, and named them for flowers, and none of
the
> > guys felt put upon by the responsibility and liked being fathers
and
> > putting in gardens and keeping the vw campers on the road--
families
> > were cool. We did a ton of business (or maybe I should say
business
> > by the ton, kilo by kilo) without benefit of police or government
> > oversight, because ripping off was uncool. Truth was valued. In
> > fact, the ten commandments were pretty well observed. The Haight
> > only got seedy when they were no longer observed, when we got so
> > stoned we forgot the faiths that formed us.
> >
> > I am arguing, in fact, that we go back to those values so we can
> > have the Haight again, on earth and in space. We've gotten lost.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Don Davis"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "janet_baker76"
> > > wrote:
> > > > I said I am using the Catholic Church's
> > > > defintion of ideal sexual morality as enunciated in the
> > catechism
> > > > and calling this definition Christian. I certainly stand by
that
> > > > definition, and I'm allowed, since I was the person discussing
> > an
> > > > ideal morality in the first place, one kinder and gentler to
> > women,
> > > > kids, and the world than the one promised by liberality.
> > >
> > > Alright, so you are a fan of Catholicism, that gives your
numerous
> > > extremist comments suitable context. I'm sure you will be among
the
> > > first in line when the Church of Rome takes applications for its
> > > colony. If you think people who have a different view of society
> > are
> > > morally inferior, whatever their religious world views, that is
> > your
> > > right and I hope you are able to find an ideal society to your
> > liking
> > > along with the myraids of others who will be filling space
colonies
> > > with their brands of like minded people.
> > > My space colony will be something like Burning Man
> > > (http://www.donaldedavis.com/PARTS/BMINTRO.html) before the
> > > harrassment by the BLM was commonplace and something like the
> > Haight
> > > Ashbury idealistic movement when people were open to new ideas,
new
> > > living patterns, new music and new states of consiousness. There
> > will
> > > be no guns, not even for the cops, no snooping into our
bedrooms,
> > > bladders, and brains, no bigotry and especially no imposition of
> > > restrictions based on religious values. Consenting adults can do
> > what
> > > they wish among themselves without some athority figures
deciding
> > to
> > > try to make the private life of others their business.
> > > A strength of the space colony idea is that it offers hope to
> > those
> > > who yearn for living according to their ideals, too often
something
> > > being taken away by 'muddled majority rule' restrictions
enforced
> > by
> > > uniformed thugs with guns. This applies to liberals, John
Birchers,
> > > nudists, religious fanatics Christian or not, and 'Dick and
Jane'
> > > milktoast American ideal family groups. All deserve a chance to
> > create
> > > societies to their liking in independent enviornments. All
deserve
> > to
> > > be left alone by others.
> > > Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in ruling ranks of
> > society
> > > who take an unhealthy interest in what consenting adults do
among
> > each
> > > other, what they read and what kind of intoxicants and intimacy
> > they
> > > enjoy among themselves. They seek to wipe out such things that
> > they do
> > > not understand and think should not exist. They wish entire
groups
> > of
> > > otherwise functional people would dissappear.
> > > When governments try to regulate the reproductive lives of
people
> > > under their power, the results are often ugly. We have the case
of
> > > Nazi Germany, which outlawed abortion as soon as they got in
power,
> > > and generally disenfranchised women from the work force. America
> > > encouraged women to work, and this was one of the deciding
factors
> > in
> > > our victory in World War II. More recently, we have pre
revolution
> > > Romania and present day China, one which monitored monthly
cycles
> > to
> > > register and force the completion of all pregnancies, the latter
> > doing
> > > so to enforce abortions. Both are repungnant and contrary to
common
> > > decency, if there can be said to be such a thing in the
> > multicultural
> > > cacaphony that is the human Race.
> > > The idea that we have to compulsively abundantly breed is an
> > > ingrained product of ancient high death rate conditions, today
> > people
> > > are cared for so well compared to even 100 years ago that we
have
> > to
> > > ease up on the production rate in order to avoid having
> > enviornmental
> > > conditions get out of hand in order to maintain decent
standards of
> > > living for all these people. Women will try to limit the number
of
> > > children they have as they become aware of better lives they can
> > have
> > > by rising above third world standards of living. Once mass
> > > communication is available, things people really want to learn
> > about
> > > are propagated and the resultd speak for themselves.
> > > Part of the very desire for Space Colonization is an excersize
of
> > > the world view given us by science and philosophy that we can
> > direct
> > > our own destiny as a species. It is a result of mass ability to
> > think
> > > about such things without relying on power figure in government
and
> > > clergy to do our thinking for us. it is a sign that 'We are as
Gods
> > > and we might asd well start getting good at it!'
> > > I can remember as a child, and I'm not quite old yet, a world
> > with
> > > only half the population of the world of today. That is a
> > terrifying
> > > thing to contemplete when you consider it took from the
beginning
> > of
> > > Humanity roughly up to a million years ago (by Human I mean
someone
> > > with sufficent genetic compatability to modern people to have
> > healthy
> > > children with) to the early 1800's for the population to reach
ONE
> > > BILLION. That number was added to our fragile Earth in the last
12
> > > years!!! How much can we ask of poor Gaiea? If there is a mass
> > > realization of this state of affairs in the industrialized
workd it
> > > should be taken as a good sign. Even if the population declines
to
> > a
> > > fraction of that of today that should be seen as only a smooth
> > > progress to an ideal population level. The number of people
really
> > > required to keep the Human race going isn't really large at all.
> > > It is suggested that the 'ignorant third world breeders' will
> > > ultimately take over the Earth because the industrialized world
> > will
> > > die out. Let me repeat that only a replacement level at a level
far
> > > less than today is really needed. If a few generations don't
quite
> > > replace themselves it will mean a less crowded richer society
that
> > > will be emulated by others made aware of why such places are so
> > > desirable. They created their reality for themselves and as
people
> > > become informed and elevated above third world status they will
> > also
> > > create better realities for themselves. Just as in Soviet
Russia,
> > > efforts to keep mass media away from young people will be
doomed to
> > > failure. Some day even Afghanistan will be filled with
televisions

Generally, when you ignore polls, you ignore America.

And when you do that, you're in some deep sticky stinky stuff.

George
cygo.com

On 6/25/06, terrierkeeper wrote:

When comparing outcomes of recent elections and their poll predicted
outcomes one can clearly see that their accuracy is not even close to
the mark. Track record is loud and clear.

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, cygonaut
>
> Generally, when you ignore polls, you ignore America.
>
> And when you do that, you're in some deep sticky stinky stuff.
>
> George
> cygo.com
>
> On 6/25/06, terrierkeeper wrote:
> >
> > If anything can be learned from the passing years it is that
Polls
> > and elections rarely have the same results. Indeed the ones
getting
> > clobbered in those 'polls' are the self styled moderates and those
> > who are trying to 'move to the center'.
> >
> > Then again this nation had similar pains a hundred years ago
> > cleaning out corrupt government practices.
> >
> > Democrats who are certainly not the party of the workong people
or of
> > democracy in practice are getting nowhere trying to relive the
failed
> > social experiments of the sixties and seventies. They're losing on
> > the referendums. They're losing at the elections.In some
elections so
> > desperate are tehy to return to power they're running
Conservatives.
> >
> > America is coming to its sences and moving to the right. Problem
is
> > some Republicans still don't understand or want that to be true.
> >
> > Once this mess gets cleaned through this nation can start looing
> > skyward.
> >
> > PS. from an earlier question. Actually Poland did not suffer Five
> > Million civilian fatalities. The Number given in the Holocaust
> > Chronicle is Three Million and some sources dispute that. As for
> > reasons for the discrepency. Some names may have been couted
twice.
> > Some Jews may have been included among the Polish dead though in
life
> > none would be counted among the Polish living. Another though not
> > mentioned is many Germans living in pre-war Poland were forced to
> > either reclassify themselves as Poles or lose their property
promptly
> > resumed their former identities once Germany mocved in. Also One
> > Point Seven million Poles reclassified themeselvs ethnicly German
> > (Volksdeutsch Class Three or Class Four) when the Germans made
> > similar plans for them.
> >
> > --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > cygonaut
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Excellent post, Jan.
> > >
> > > The corrupt yet preacher wannabe's we now have leading the
nation
> > are, as
> > > the saying goes, neither moral nor the majority.
> > >
> > > Further, there's no Jesus in the "Christian" reich. With their
> > disdain for
> > > the poor and homeless and constant glorification of the rich,
they
> > should be
> > > called "Paulians" or "AntiChristians".
> > >
> > > Thankfully, even with all the nonsense - Ann Coulter, FOX News,
700
> > Club,
> > > conservative talk radio, etc - the American people appear to be
> > buying it
> > > less as much these days and the approval polls for this wacky
> > president and
> > > GOP leadership are are still dropping into icky-icky land.
> > >
> > > This scum don't work and they don't pay the bills and they don't
> > even check
> > > on the president like they're required under law.
> > >
> > > Time to clean house.
> > >
> > > George
> > > cygo.com
> > >
> > > On 6/24/06, janet_baker76 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don wrote that his personal space colony would be "something
> > like
> > > > the Haight Ashbury idealistic movement" which is sure
interesting
> > to
> > > > me, since I was there from 1965 to 1979,living on the
Panhandle.
> > > > Maybe Don and I already know each other. I was the skinny
English
> > > > major who dropped acid every day before class, got straight
A's,
> > and
> > > > received her diploma in the San Francisco jail for
demonstating
> > for
> > > > increased minority admissions to San Francisco State College,
oh,
> > > > and who started topless lunchtime sunbathing among the girls.
(Now
> > > > do you remember me, Don?) The Haight sure was idealistic, but
it
> > was
> > > > not hedonistic and it most certainly was not irreligious. In
my
> > > > immediate circle of friends (most of whom came to San
Francisco
> > with
> > > > me from Alabama where we had been working in the civil rights
> > > > movement; it was that migration of civil rights workers that
was
> > the
> > > > first wave of hippies into the Haight) there was an ex-nun
(me),
> > an
> > > > ex seminarian from Canada, two Quakers, a mormon, a Jewish
couple
> > > > one of whom was black, and an assortment of black and white
> > fervent
> > > > southern protestants. The only person who would have called
> > himself
> > > > an atheist then is a lawyer now.
> > > >
> > > > The values we learned in our faiths in the religious fifties
and
> > > > sixties in the US were the values the Haight functioned on,
albeit
> > > > rather creatively applied and perhaps ultimately misapplied.
We
> > > > served the poor--the Black Panther Party was just a Franciscan
> > > > outpost, as far as I was concerned, and I was not alone. We
made
> > > > love, not war, and lots of it--and that's not the same as
either
> > > > masturbation or pornography or prostitution, and in fact all
those
> > > > sad substitutions for love were cheerly despised, as they
should
> > be.
> > > > There were gays and they were discrete. We had lots of
babies, at
> > > > home whenever possible, and named them for flowers, and none
of
> > the
> > > > guys felt put upon by the responsibility and liked being
fathers
> > and
> > > > putting in gardens and keeping the vw campers on the road--
> > families
> > > > were cool. We did a ton of business (or maybe I should say
> > business
> > > > by the ton, kilo by kilo) without benefit of police or
government
> > > > oversight, because ripping off was uncool. Truth was valued.
In
> > > > fact, the ten commandments were pretty well observed. The
Haight
> > > > only got seedy when they were no longer observed, when we got
so
> > > > stoned we forgot the faiths that formed us.
> > > >
> > > > I am arguing, in fact, that we go back to those values so we
can
> > > > have the Haight again, on earth and in space. We've gotten
lost.
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "Don Davis"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com40yahoogroups.com>> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > "janet_baker76"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I said I am using the Catholic Church's
> > > > > > defintion of ideal sexual morality as enunciated in the
> > > > catechism
> > > > > > and calling this definition Christian. I certainly stand
by
> > that
> > > > > > definition, and I'm allowed, since I was the person
discussing
> > > > an
> > > > > > ideal morality in the first place, one kinder and gentler
to
> > > > women,
> > > > > > kids, and the world than the one promised by liberality.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alright, so you are a fan of Catholicism, that gives your
> > numerous
> > > > > extremist comments suitable context. I'm sure you will be
among
> > the
> > > > > first in line when the Church of Rome takes applications
for its
> > > > > colony. If you think people who have a different view of
society
> > > > are
> > > > > morally inferior, whatever their religious world views,
that is
> > > > your
> > > > > right and I hope you are able to find an ideal society to
your
> > > > liking
> > > > > along with the myraids of others who will be filling space
> > colonies
> > > > > with their brands of like minded people.
> > > > > My space colony will be something like Burning Man
> > > > > (http://www.donaldedavis.com/PARTS/BMINTRO.html) before the
> > > > > harrassment by the BLM was commonplace and something like
the
> > > > Haight
> > > > > Ashbury idealistic movement when people were open to new
ideas,
> > new
> > > > > living patterns, new music and new states of consiousness.
There
> > > > will
> > > > > be no guns, not even for the cops, no snooping into our
> > bedrooms,
> > > > > bladders, and brains, no bigotry and especially no
imposition of
> > > > > restrictions based on religious values. Consenting adults
can do
> > > > what
> > > > > they wish among themselves without some athority figures
> > deciding
> > > > to
> > > > > try to make the private life of others their business.
> > > > > A strength of the space colony idea is that it offers hope
to
> > > > those
> > > > > who yearn for living according to their ideals, too often
> > something
> > > > > being taken away by 'muddled majority rule' restrictions
> > enforced
> > > > by
> > > > > uniformed thugs with guns. This applies to liberals, John
> > Birchers,
> > > > > nudists, religious fanatics Christian or not, and 'Dick and
> > Jane'
> > > > > milktoast American ideal family groups. All deserve a
chance to
> > > > create
> > > > > societies to their liking in independent enviornments. All
> > deserve
> > > > to
> > > > > be left alone by others.
> > > > > Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in ruling ranks of
> > > > society
> > > > > who take an unhealthy interest in what consenting adults do
> > among
> > > > each
> > > > > other, what they read and what kind of intoxicants and
intimacy
> > > > they
> > > > > enjoy among themselves. They seek to wipe out such things
that
> > > > they do
> > > > > not understand and think should not exist. They wish entire
> > groups
> > > > of
> > > > > otherwise functional people would dissappear.
> > > > > When governments try to regulate the reproductive lives of
> > people
> > > > > under their power, the results are often ugly. We have the
case
> > of
> > > > > Nazi Germany, which outlawed abortion as soon as they got in
> > power,
> > > > > and generally disenfranchised women from the work force.
America
> > > > > encouraged women to work, and this was one of the deciding
> > factors
> > > > in
> > > > > our victory in World War II. More recently, we have pre
> > revolution
> > > > > Romania and present day China, one which monitored monthly
> > cycles
> > > > to
> > > > > register and force the completion of all pregnancies, the
latter
> > > > doing
> > > > > so to enforce abortions. Both are repungnant and contrary to
> > common
> > > > > decency, if there can be said to be such a thing in the
> > > > multicultural
> > > > > cacaphony that is the human Race.
> > > > > The idea that we have to compulsively abundantly breed is an
> > > > > ingrained product of ancient high death rate conditions,
today
> > > > people
> > > > > are cared for so well compared to even 100 years ago that we
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > ease up on the production rate in order to avoid having
> > > > enviornmental
> > > > > conditions get out of hand in order to maintain decent
> > standards of
> > > > > living for all these people. Women will try to limit the
number
> > of
> > > > > children they have as they become aware of better lives
they can
> > > > have
> > > > > by rising above third world standards of living. Once mass
> > > > > communication is available, things people really want to
learn
> > > > about
> > > > > are propagated and the resultd speak for themselves.
> > > > > Part of the very desire for Space Colonization is an
excersize
> > of
> > > > > the world view given us by science and philosophy that we
can
> > > > direct
> > > > > our own destiny as a species. It is a result of mass
ability to
> > > > think
> > > > > about such things without relying on power figure in
government
> > and
> > > > > clergy to do our thinking for us. it is a sign that 'We are
as
> > Gods
> > > > > and we might asd well start getting good at it!'
> > > > > I can remember as a child, and I'm not quite old yet, a
world
> > > > with
> > > > > only half the population of the world of today. That is a
> > > > terrifying
> > > > > thing to contemplete when you consider it took from the
> > beginning
> > > > of
> > > > > Humanity roughly up to a million years ago (by Human I mean
> > someone
> > > > > with sufficent genetic compatability to modern people to
have
> > > > healthy
> > > > > children with) to the early 1800's for the population to
reach
> > ONE
> > > > > BILLION. That number was added to our fragile Earth in the
last
> > 12
> > > > > years!!! How much can we ask of poor Gaiea? If there is a
mass
> > > > > realization of this state of affairs in the industrialized
> > workd it
> > > > > should be taken as a good sign. Even if the population
declines
> > to
> > > > a
> > > > > fraction of that of today that should be seen as only a
smooth
> > > > > progress to an ideal population level. The number of people
> > really
> > > > > required to keep the Human race going isn't really large at
all.
> > > > > It is suggested that the 'ignorant third world breeders'
will
> > > > > ultimately take over the Earth because the industrialized
world
> > > > will
> > > > > die out. Let me repeat that only a replacement level at a
level
> > far
> > > > > less than today is really needed. If a few generations don't
> > quite
> > > > > replace themselves it will mean a less crowded richer
society
> > that
> > > > > will be emulated by others made aware of why such places
are so
> > > > > desirable. They created their reality for themselves and as
> > people
> > > > > become informed and elevated above third world status they
will
> > > > also
> > > > > create better realities for themselves. Just as in Soviet
> > Russia,
> > > > > efforts to keep mass media away from young people will be
> > doomed to
> > > > > failure. Some day even Afghanistan will be filled with
> > televisions
> > > > and
> > > > > increasingly dissatisfied youth sick of Islamic
restrictions on

We'll see what happens.

George
cygo.com

On 6/25/06, terrierkeeper wrote:

--- In spacesettlers, "terrierkeeper" wrote:

> When comparing outcomes of recent elections and their poll predicted
> outcomes one can clearly see that their accuracy is not even close
> to the mark. Track record is loud and clear.

Yeah it tells me something all right.