To all of you out there reading this post, I'm glad you tuned in.
I'm only 16 years old at the moment of writing, but I've always been
one to think logisitically, at a comprehension level many years
above my age. I've planned strategic company growth since I was 14
years old and have numerous experiences with helping organizations
build their programs and achieve their goals.

I've also been a member of this group for about 2 years,I think, and
all I've ever read about is a the "plans" for pursueing the
expansion of the human race into space. Over these years, I've
become very excited with the idea that we will one day develop other
planets, and I've really been wondering whether or not this group
has a formal idea for going into space. I don't mean, Example: We
want to go to mars and help restructure the molcules to form a
biodiversified plant life or bring tourism to the moon,
but actually is their a formal "business section" of this group, one
that is looking to find corporate sponsors and alliances with key
strategic partners, so that one day we can colonize space? There is
a lot that can be done with space, and with the help of corporations
seeking new outlets and ideas, I'm sure we can group together
hundreds of corporations into a strategic alliance, and get the ball
rolling on developing something as simple as the world's first space
destination, also known as a HOTEL. Sure, at the moment, not much
can be done in space, but what about 20 years in the future? Do we
want to sit around now, and then 20 years later, when we have the
ability to do something in space, just begin to build the
foundations for our plans, putting our colonization efforts behind
by over 20 years?

What I'm basically saying is, why don't we try to get the ball
rolling now? Many companies, as we speak, are attempting to create
cheaper, more economical ways to launch objects into space. For
example, if we create an alliance/partnership with one of these
corporations, espically one who is looking for a destination after
the launch of their vechicles, we could proably create something
such as the ISS, but at a fraction of the cost and one that caters
to guests and science. With funding from hundreds of grants,
goverments and private entities, who recieve huge advertising
through our ISS "destination." This doesn't have to ever be the
idea, because it's just an example. How many others like me believe
we should get the ball rolling? Let's hear some ideas about how we
can start this thing off.

Ryan

-Disclaimer: I was not intentionally meaning to copy any work or any
information that was presented in this self-written article. Any
replication was purely by accident and was not copied from a media
source. The intention of this article was to help bring in the realm
of space to everyone, and to get action many years before a Program
can be launched/feasibly launched. The intention was to also not
hurt the feelings of involved members and to allow the exchange of
free thoughts between the members of the group.

On Sep 20, 2006, at 02:51 UTC, Ryan wrote:

> There is
> a lot that can be done with space, and with the help of corporations
> seeking new outlets and ideas, I'm sure we can group together
> hundreds of corporations into a strategic alliance, and get the ball
> rolling on developing something as simple as the world's first space
> destination, also known as a HOTEL.

Bigelow Aerospace is already working on that (and doing an admirable
job too, IMHO).

> Sure, at the moment, not much
> can be done in space, but what about 20 years in the future? Do we
> want to sit around now, and then 20 years later, when we have the
> ability to do something in space, just begin to build the
> foundations for our plans, putting our colonization efforts behind
> by over 20 years?

It doesn't work that way, because it doesn't take 20 years to write a
business plan. When the opportunities actually exist, THEN is the time
to get down to nuts and bolts and write a realistic business plan that
can attract investors. Until then, it's just exercise -- and yes, many
people have already done such exercises. There's nothing wrong with
that; I've done some myself (though I tend to emphasize the technical
aspect more than the business when it comes to space colonies).

Meanwhile, the most useful thing that most of us can do is to educate
people. For example, you seem to be suffering from planetary
chauvinism; we can probably cure that. You also seem to be "suffering"
from youthful over-optimism; I wouldn't try to cure you of that -- time
will do that, soon enough. :) Just know that we all felt the same way
at one point. Eventually it'll be replaced with either disillusionment
and cynicism, or a more tempered, patient attitude. Hopefully the
latter.

Best,
- Joe

Joe Strout -- joe@...

Some of the people here seem to actually be in a position to "do
something." The rest of us just talk. Actually, we *all* talk, but
some have insight or connections or such with academia, industry, or
government. I will let these people speak for themselves, since after
all they know what they are talking about and I do not.

Me, I talk. I like to think that I ask some intelligent questions,
and even sometimes have worthwhile offerings of my own. Mostly,
though, I'm a cheerleader for those who can do something.

It seems that you may be one of those, in which case let me say now:
rah rah rah, siss boom bah.

Something I would like to see done is for this to get into popular
culture. When we start tossing hundreds or thousands of people into
space, it would be nice if the idea had a fan base. How many movies,
TV shows, video games, etc. are there about space habitats? The only
ones that occur to me are the various _Gumdam_ series from Japan, and
even these are more about giant battle robots than habitats. I think
the US(*) could benefit from a weekly TV series set in a High Frontier
environment. Cop show, teen angst, medical drama; it hardly matters.
I've posted a bit of a family sitcom over in FILES. This is just an
example of "what it might be like," as I don't fool myself that I can
actually get this made.

Xenophile (who is laughing at the image of himself with pom poms)

(*) if the show is any good, it would be seen around the world.
_Speed Racer_ and _Sailor Moon_ and yes, _Gundam Wing_ made it to the
US, _The Six Million Dollar Man_ and _Star Trek_ made it to Japan.

Joe,

For starters, allow me to thank you for taking the time to respond to my oversimplified question of whether or not this group is attempting to put together a solid plan on the expansionism of the human race into outer space. Also, thank you very much for announcing to me that a Aerospace group is actually focusing on the destination in space. You can't have interaction and interest in space without somewhere that would be attractive to potential clients. Sure, the normal lot of us, like you and I, would of course go into space at the first offering, but numerous others out there think of anything like a tourist destination, and if their isn't something good on the other side, why spend the money just to fly out there?(Similar to the idea of flying to the middle of the desert, only to discover you forgot to book a hotel, and are now 50 miles away from the local motel.)

In case you also missed my point, I was not stating that it takes 20 years to write a business plan. Actually, it only took me about 3 weeks to nail out most of the details of my business plan, yet the actually planning of my entire operation has been planned since I was 15 years old. I've still got about 6 months to one year before I even launch my business. This is my prime example about space exploration: If we hold off stating our goals and creating our business plan till say the year 2020, what has that got us if we are just planning the actual habitat then? We still would need at least 5-10 years afterwards of development and additional planning to even possible make this happen. It's just like JFK, Joe, he can state we will go to the moon in 1960's, but since he still stated it many years before we actually could, he was able to gather funding and some resources before his death. This is what needs to happen. We do not wait 20 years until we are able to launch, and
then pull our fingers out of ears and go: Now we can start working on finding our resources. Just remember this Joe, History and People favor those who are both brave and prepared. Starting late could set back the entire space tourism and expansionism by years, maybe even by another decade or two. The business plan never contains what is going to come about, because we don't know the technology that we may or may not have then. We can guess, but we truly don't know until we have it in our hands.

On a final note, in case you haven't noticed, I don't share the same over-optimism that my fellow peers share. As a matter of fact I have quite the latter. When I was younger, all I wanted to do was train to become a fighter pilot, and then become one of the first astronauts to land on mars and lead the exploration. Of course, reality sometimes throws you a curve ball and knocks you off your feet. I had near perfect grades going into highschool and during my 9th grade year, until of course Mr. Curve-ball whacked me in the forehead. I was diagnosed with a disease called Legg Perthes, of course a pretty severe case of it too. There's no cure either. Heck, they don't even know how you get it. Legg Perthes disease slowly eats away at the ball of my hip joints, in both my left and right hip sockets. When I'm about 30, I will need two complete hip replacement because of my actives when I was younger. I was always a active kid, playing every sport I could, and right before I was
diagnosed I had even hiked in Philmont, New Mexico, in the Rockies, for 12 days and moved over 120 miles in those days. That's averaged out to be 10 miles a day, with my pack weighing at least 55 pounds on top of my 140. This little hike is predicted to take at least 1-2 years off my hip joints alone, not including everything else I've done in my life.

So to sum it all up, I'm limited in time I have until space is out of my reach. They WILL never launch a double hip replacement man into space, or at least probably not in my life time. So I have until 30 to make my favorite dreams come true. I'm going into space, and I'm climbing Everest before I can't anymore. I accept that, but will not allow anyone or anything to tell me it can't be done. Everyone says that about me and my business, but look who proved them wrong. I don't give up and I know what reality can do to you and I know how to find the solution when your picking from a thousand answers. So please don't doubt me. Help me prove that we can make a difference in the perspective of space and hopeful we can one day lead the "Outer Space Race" for land and territories.

Ryan

joe@... wrote:
On Sep 20, 2006, at 02:51 UTC, Ryan wrote:

> There is
> a lot that can be done with space, and with the help of corporations
> seeking new outlets and ideas, I'm sure we can group together
> hundreds of corporations into a strategic alliance, and get the ball
> rolling on developing something as simple as the world's first space
> destination, also known as a HOTEL.

Bigelow Aerospace is already working on that (and doing an admirable
job too, IMHO).

> Sure, at the moment, not much
> can be done in space, but what about 20 years in the future? Do we
> want to sit around now, and then 20 years later, when we have the
> ability to do something in space, just begin to build the
> foundations for our plans, putting our colonization efforts behind
> by over 20 years?

It doesn't work that way, because it doesn't take 20 years to write a
business plan. When the opportunities actually exist, THEN is the time
to get down to nuts and bolts and write a realistic business plan that
can attract investors. Until then, it's just exercise -- and yes, many
people have already done such exercises. There's nothing wrong with
that; I've done some myself (though I tend to emphasize the technical
aspect more than the business when it comes to space colonies).

Meanwhile, the most useful thing that most of us can do is to educate
people. For example, you seem to be suffering from planetary
chauvinism; we can probably cure that. You also seem to be "suffering"
from youthful over-optimism; I wouldn't try to cure you of that -- time
will do that, soon enough. :) Just know that we all felt the same way
at one point. Eventually it'll be replaced with either disillusionment
and cynicism, or a more tempered, patient attitude. Hopefully the
latter.

Best,
- Joe

Joe Strout -- joe@strout.net

Ryan,

Nice to meet you. I'm an other 16 year old member of this group. Also been a member for the better part of 2 years. Personally, I plan to just improve my math skills before I try anything real special. I'm planning (well, hoping) to become an aeronautical engineer, so that'd mean I will be working for who ever finally starts a high-frontier style buisness. But as to how soon I would like someone to start a high-frontier business, the sooner the better. Hopefully; I don't walk around with too much youthful overoptimism. My real wakeup call was getting stuck with grades in school (math & science, [my favroite courses]), just slightly (sarcastic) below what is expected of an aspiring engineer. As it stands, I still have a chance to get into university... but less than I'd like.

But enough about me... Why don't we (this email group) start working on a business plan for settling space? I mean our name is spacesettlers after all hehe

Sincerly-
Michael P.

Ryan wrote: To all of you out there reading this post, I'm glad you tuned in.
I'm only 16 years old at the moment of writing, but I've always been
one to think logisitically, at a comprehension level many years
above my age. I've planned strategic company growth since I was 14
years old and have numerous experiences with helping organizations
build their programs and achieve their goals.

I've also been a member of this group for about 2 years,I think, and
all I've ever read about is a the "plans" for pursueing the
expansion of the human race into space. Over these years, I've
become very excited with the idea that we will one day develop other
planets, and I've really been wondering whether or not this group
has a formal idea for going into space. I don't mean, Example: We
want to go to mars and help restructure the molcules to form a
biodiversified plant life or bring tourism to the moon,
but actually is their a formal "business section" of this group, one
that is looking to find corporate sponsors and alliances with key
strategic partners, so that one day we can colonize space? There is
a lot that can be done with space, and with the help of corporations
seeking new outlets and ideas, I'm sure we can group together
hundreds of corporations into a strategic alliance, and get the ball
rolling on developing something as simple as the world's first space
destination, also known as a HOTEL. Sure, at the moment, not much
can be done in space, but what about 20 years in the future? Do we
want to sit around now, and then 20 years later, when we have the
ability to do something in space, just begin to build the
foundations for our plans, putting our colonization efforts behind
by over 20 years?

What I'm basically saying is, why don't we try to get the ball
rolling now? Many companies, as we speak, are attempting to create
cheaper, more economical ways to launch objects into space. For
example, if we create an alliance/partnership with one of these
corporations, espically one who is looking for a destination after
the launch of their vechicles, we could proably create something
such as the ISS, but at a fraction of the cost and one that caters
to guests and science. With funding from hundreds of grants,
goverments and private entities, who recieve huge advertising
through our ISS "destination." This doesn't have to ever be the
idea, because it's just an example. How many others like me believe
we should get the ball rolling? Let's hear some ideas about how we
can start this thing off.

Ryan

-Disclaimer: I was not intentionally meaning to copy any work or any
information that was presented in this self-written article. Any
replication was purely by accident and was not copied from a media
source. The intention of this article was to help bring in the realm
of space to everyone, and to get action many years before a Program
can be launched/feasibly launched. The intention was to also not
hurt the feelings of involved members and to allow the exchange of
free thoughts between the members of the group.

On Sep 20, 2006, at 20:14 UTC, Ryan Lokey wrote:

> In case you also missed my point, I was not stating that it takes
20 years
> to write a business plan. Actually, it only took me about 3 weeks to
nail out
> most of the details of my business plan, yet the actually planning of
my
> entire operation has been planned since I was 15 years old.

You're only 16. Say "about a year" instead -- otherwise it sounds like
you're either exaggerating how long it took, or bragging about your
youth, or both.

Also, when you write things like this:

> Just remember this Joe, History and People favor those who are both
brave and
> prepared.

..you sound like you're lecturing (someone twice your age). These
observations are not meant to be critical, but rather helpful -- just a
few tips for getting along and being effective. If you turn people off
with minor stuff like this, then they're not likely to hear the rest of
what you have to say, even when it has merit.

> So to sum it all up, I'm limited in time I have until space is out
of my
> reach. They WILL never launch a double hip replacement man into
space, or at
> least probably not in my life time.

I don't believe that; the medical requirements for passenger flights
(e.g. Virgin Galactic and those that follow) will be *much* lower than
for current astronauts. In addition, you've got a lot of time ahead of
you -- and if that still doesn't seem like enough, look into cryonics.
There's no reason why you (and I) shouldn't see as much of the solar
system as we want, someday.

Best,
- Joe

Joe Strout -- joe@...

Joe,

Just like you have said, none of my comments are meant to be critical or hurtful to anyone involved. That includes you Joe.

Must you know why I have not stated it was "about a year"? The reason was because the context of about a year did not represent the actual time. Currently, I'm about 16 and 3 months, and I finished planning the operations at about 15 and 1 months. So when I know for a fact that I have actual planned this operation that long ago, I will continue to state in the same form. On a further note, I have never exaggerated how long it took. Had I just finished it three days ago, I would have said three days ago. Lying to make yourself good is not only ignorant, it's also dumb and makes you less of a person. Never should anyone ever have to lie to make themselves look better. Also, never would I brag about my youth, in any way shape or form. Why would someone want to brag about the acne they had, the disappointments they've had, or the inability of adults to understand them and the ideas that they hold.

"You're only 16. Say "about a year" instead -- otherwise it sounds like
you're either exaggerating how long it took, or bragging about your
youth, or both."

Just like you, sometimes I may have an inability of communicating effectively to people who share the same traits. At the moment we are both agreeing to disagree on what should be done. Lecturing is not what is meant to come from this, but is simple the way that youths of today have been taught to write. When we construct critical term papers, lacking this "definitive thought" such as is expressed through lecture terms, we fail to achieve the grades that we deserve. So you must forgive the fact that my words came off to you as they did. I apologize. (Try getting this out of another teen? They NEVER admit they were wrong)

I don't believe that; the medical requirements for passenger flights
(e.g. Virgin Galactic and those that follow) will be *much* lower than
for current astronauts. In addition, you've got a lot of time ahead of
you -- and if that still doesn't seem like enough, look into cryonics.
There's no reason why you (and I) shouldn't see as much of the solar
system as we want, someday.

In the future, I also agree that these VIRGIN GALACTIC trips will most likely be of much less medical standards. But also please consider the engineering of these ball joints. If I do not have the money at the time to purchase incredibly advanced ball/hip replacements, I will fail to be eligible to launch into space. That would mainly be because of the generally enormous pressure a launch can cause. Also, NO ONE, has ever really checked the status of ball replacements in ZERO Gravity. So at this time I don't know if I will be eligible when the time actual comes around. Which is why I attempt to get everything started now. Hopefully when they prove we can go into space, I will also be eligible.

Ryan

joe@... wrote:
On Sep 20, 2006, at 20:14 UTC, Ryan Lokey wrote:

> In case you also missed my point, I was not stating that it takes
20 years
> to write a business plan. Actually, it only took me about 3 weeks to
nail out
> most of the details of my business plan, yet the actually planning of
my
> entire operation has been planned since I was 15 years old.

You're only 16. Say "about a year" instead -- otherwise it sounds like
you're either exaggerating how long it took, or bragging about your
youth, or both.

Also, when you write things like this:

> Just remember this Joe, History and People favor those who are both
brave and
> prepared.

..you sound like you're lecturing (someone twice your age). These
observations are not meant to be critical, but rather helpful -- just a
few tips for getting along and being effective. If you turn people off
with minor stuff like this, then they're not likely to hear the rest of
what you have to say, even when it has merit.

> So to sum it all up, I'm limited in time I have until space is out
of my
> reach. They WILL never launch a double hip replacement man into
space, or at
> least probably not in my life time.

Best,
- Joe

Joe Strout -- joe@...

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

Joe,

Just like you have said, none of my comments are meant to be critical or hurtful to anyone involved. That includes you Joe.

Must you know why I have not stated it was "about a year"? The reason was because the context of about a year did not represent the actual time. Currently, I'm about 16 and 3 months, and I finished planning the operations at about 15 and 1 months. So when I know for a fact that I have actual planned this operation that long ago, I will continue to state in the same form. On a further note, I have never exaggerated how long it took. Had I just finished it three days ago, I would have said three days ago. Lying to make yourself good is not only ignorant, it's also dumb and makes you less of a person. Never should anyone ever have to lie to make themselves look better. Also, never would I brag about my youth, in any way shape or form. Why would someone want to brag about the acne they had, the disappointments they've had, or the inability of adults to understand them and the ideas that they hold.

"You're only 16. Say "about a year" instead -- otherwise it sounds like
you're either exaggerating how long it took, or bragging about your
youth, or both."

Just like you, sometimes I may have an inability of communicating effectively to people who share the same traits. At the moment we are both agreeing to disagree on what should be done. Lecturing is not what is meant to come from this, but is simple the way that youths of today have been taught to write. When we construct critical term papers, lacking this "definitive thought" such as is expressed through lecture terms, we fail to achieve the grades that we deserve. So you must forgive the fact that my words came off to you as they did. I apologize. (Try getting this out of another teen? They NEVER admit they were wrong)

I don't believe that; the medical requirements for passenger flights
(e.g. Virgin Galactic and those that follow) will be *much* lower than
for current astronauts. In addition, you've got a lot of time ahead of
you -- and if that still doesn't seem like enough, look into cryonics.
There's no reason why you (and I) shouldn't see as much of the solar
system as we want, someday.

In the future, I also agree that these VIRGIN GALACTIC trips will most likely be of much less medical standards. But also please consider the engineering of these ball joints. If I do not have the money at the time to purchase incredibly advanced ball/hip replacements, I will fail to be eligible to launch into space. That would mainly be because of the generally enormous pressure a launch can cause. Also, NO ONE, has ever really checked the status of ball replacements in ZERO Gravity. So at this time I don't know if I will be eligible when the time actual comes around. Which is why I attempt to get everything started now. Hopefully when they prove we can go into space, I will also be eligible.

Ryan

joe@... wrote:
On Sep 20, 2006, at 20:14 UTC, Ryan Lokey wrote:

> In case you also missed my point, I was not stating that it takes
20 years
> to write a business plan. Actually, it only took me about 3 weeks to
nail out
> most of the details of my business plan, yet the actually planning of
my
> entire operation has been planned since I was 15 years old.

You're only 16. Say "about a year" instead -- otherwise it sounds like
you're either exaggerating how long it took, or bragging about your
youth, or both.

Also, when you write things like this:

> Just remember this Joe, History and People favor those who are both
brave and
> prepared.

..you sound like you're lecturing (someone twice your age). These
observations are not meant to be critical, but rather helpful -- just a
few tips for getting along and being effective. If you turn people off
with minor stuff like this, then they're not likely to hear the rest of
what you have to say, even when it has merit.

> So to sum it all up, I'm limited in time I have until space is out
of my
> reach. They WILL never launch a double hip replacement man into
space, or at
> least probably not in my life time.

Best,
- Joe

Joe Strout -- joe@...

Getting the ball rolling.. well the biggest problem isnt the will to
do the things necessary to get into space.. Its fighting the will that
wants to keep mankind grounded and stangnant.. The general argument is
"We need to take care of our problems on earth first before moving out
into space" .

Funy how Europ was having major problems both political and economical
when many of her countries started colonies in the Americas.
In the atempt to aleveate those problems. Im not going to get long
winded on this point, but one can easily argue that it did help for a
time to ease these problems. The point I will go more into is of the
above quote.. which is totally irrashinal.

Space holds the promis to once again aleveate these age old problems.
Being that it is at least at its heart irrashinal argument. Those who
support this veiw will fight three times as hard and much more dirty
handed because it gives the feeling of legitimacy. To further this
false legitimacy they have the perfect catch 22 allready in place.. "
We dont need SI FI fantasy we need real answers to real problems that
are here and now!"
So money for space exploration is cut for more social programs here on
earth. Which sets back space exporation thus, always making space's
ability to answer these problems at least 50 to 100 years off. And no
matter how much time passes it will always be 50 to 100 or more years
off do to the catch 22 stated above.

Most of you who read this maybe saying to yourselves I know this
allready! But have you or I done anything about it?
Thus, the reply to this young mans post. Youthful over-optimism?.
I reason not. For had we listen to Von Braun and followed his lead
after the moon landings We would not be here talking about this now.
We would be sipping tea on Mars.

When I ask have you or I done anything about it. I really mean what
more can we do about it? How can we lobby government and edjucate
others? Yes there are lobbying groups for space, but so far they only
been able to keep dreams a float not much more.
How do you convince some one to Vote pro, space. Given that pro, space
polatision might not be of the person in questions political party of
choce, and Yes there are alot of serious issues of the here and now
that would have to be addressed. Such as war on terror..so on

Its a hard nut to crack, but I believe a more aggressive lobbying
group or maybe even go as far as a new political party. Pirvet
business is allready finding its way as far as doing space business.
Its the political side that needs addressing more than anything. Oh
and those dont believe its a problem. The lackluster last 30+ years of
space exploration proves Im right...

Please note.. I am NOT trying to start pointless political arguments
over political semantics. Space should be our commen ground here lets
focus on those politics only.

Oh one last thing Ryan keep up the Youthful over-optimism. Space
exploration needs it..

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan" wrote: