A group for people who think that space settlements are a better option than planets for space colonization.G'day,

O'Neill did much worth while work, but he never built a habitat. Nor did he go into Space.
The people behind the Atlantica project have allready built underwater habitats and have
become aquanauts.

However I understand your scepticism, so do keep an eye on the website but do remember
that the internet does not contain the sum knowledge of the human species.

ta

Ralph

Posted by: "ANTIcarrot" dante_feditech@... dante_feditech
Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:29 am (PST)
> From: ralph_buttigieg
> William, the sea floor is a true frontier, the Earth's land areas
> are not. The frontiers of Sea and Space still allow you
> to. The great advantage to the Sea is that transportation costs are
> far less then Space.

O'Neil did a lot of work to prove that his colonies were workable. He didn't
put up some fanciful pictures and mumble about the details. I'm sure you
coudl build under sea colonies (or at least something analagous to under sea
oil rigs) and I'm sure there will be economic incentives. But until the sea
settlement website expands and includes some hard detaisl and facts, many on
this list will remain extremely skeptical.

John

A group for people who think that space settlements are a better option than planets for space colonization.G'day,

No William, it doesn't work that way. Australia controls its borders and has done so since Federation.
After the war there was some interest in brining in Jewish settlers to the Ord region in Western Australia, but they would
have been bound by local law. Those settlers went to Israel instead. The Middle East situation is a good example of
what happens when you try to settle an all ready occupied land.

ta

Ralph

Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony
Posted by: "William" wlm@... wlm_efn
Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:40 am (PST)
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "ralph_buttigieg"
> William, the sea floor is a true frontier, the Earth's land areas
> are not. Try to set up a colony in Australia or even Antarctica and
> see how far you will get.

Antarctica is currently off-limits to permanent human settlement. And
rightly so.

The Australian outback I don't know about. Wouldn't the government
want to settle and exploit this huge area? One would have to
purchase the land with a payment/bribe to the government, if that's
what you mean by it not being a frontier. But one might have to
pay/bribe the U.N. to set up colonies on the ocean floor, too. The
ocean bottom I believe is, outside of national waters, legally
international property.

From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: [spacesettlers] Digest Number 1600

A group for people who think that space settlements are a better option than planets for space colonization.
Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)
1a. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony From: ralph_buttigieg
1b. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony From: ANTIcarrot
1c. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony From: Omar E. Vega
1d. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony From: William
1e. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony From: William
1f. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony From: Alex Michael Bonnici
View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
1a. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony
Posted by: "ralph_buttigieg" ralphb@... ralph_buttigieg
Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:48 am (PST)
G'day all,

William, the sea floor is a true frontier, the Earth's land areas
are not. Try to set up a colony in Australia or even Antarctica and
see how far you will get. The settlers of Australia and the USA were
able to set up a new society, that can no longer be done anywhere on
the Earth's surface. The frontiers of Sea and Space still allow you
to. The great advantage to the Sea is that transportation costs are
far less then Space.

My advice to anyone who wants to explore a new world is to take up
diving.

ta

Ralph

PS
I hope to be joining Dennis a crew member of the Atlantica
Expeditions.

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
>

>
> Permanently settling some of the very inhospitable and largely
> unpopulated land areas on Earth is already an opportunity for
> anybody. Probably safer, probably much cheaper.
>
> Siberia, the Australian outback, the Sahara desert, the Greenland
> ice cap, Antarctica, Alaska, large parts of Canada, are already
> available. The ocean surface could be settled with appropriate
> technology, too.
>
> Any of these could and should be tried before trying to settle
> underwater.
>

Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (21)
1b. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony
Posted by: "ANTIcarrot" dante_feditech@... dante_feditech
Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:29 am (PST)
> From: ralph_buttigieg
> William, the sea floor is a true frontier, the Earth's land areas
> are not. The frontiers of Sea and Space still allow you
> to. The great advantage to the Sea is that transportation costs are
> far less then Space.

O'Neil did a lot of work to prove that his colonies were workable. He didn't
put up some fanciful pictures and mumble about the details. I'm sure you
coudl build under sea colonies (or at least something analagous to under sea
oil rigs) and I'm sure there will be economic incentives. But until the sea
settlement website expands and includes some hard detaisl and facts, many on
this list will remain extremely skeptical.

John

Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (21)
1c. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony
Posted by: "Omar E. Vega" oevega@... oevega
Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:39 am (PST)
I agree with John:

What's the point to colonize the ocean floor? If the thing is to
recover resources we could do it living in the land or even in
floating islands in the surface of the oceans. I don't see the point
to live bellow a whole sea, just for fun.

Going to space is different. In the asteroid belt there are
resources enough to support a societies with a thrillion human
beings, and a standar of living that would make today look like the
stone age. Going to space is to take a new step into the future.

Conquesting space is the real challenge, I believe. Living on top of
the gravity well, managing all the resources of the Solar System
that are several order of magnitude greather than the ones of earth!

And that's why we follow O'Neill

Regards,

Omar

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "ANTIcarrot"
wrote:
>
> > From: ralph_buttigieg
> > William, the sea floor is a true frontier, the Earth's land areas
> > are not. The frontiers of Sea and Space still allow you
> > to. The great advantage to the Sea is that transportation costs
are
> > far less then Space.
>
> O'Neil did a lot of work to prove that his colonies were workable.
He didn't
> put up some fanciful pictures and mumble about the details. I'm
sure you
> coudl build under sea colonies (or at least something analagous to
under sea
> oil rigs) and I'm sure there will be economic incentives. But
until the sea
> settlement website expands and includes some hard detaisl and
facts, many on
> this list will remain extremely skeptical.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
>

Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (21)
1d. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony
Posted by: "William" wlm@... wlm_efn
Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:40 am (PST)
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "ralph_buttigieg"
wrote:
> William, the sea floor is a true frontier, the Earth's land areas
> are not. Try to set up a colony in Australia or even Antarctica and
> see how far you will get.

Antarctica is currently off-limits to permanent human settlement. And
rightly so.

The Australian outback I don't know about. Wouldn't the government
want to settle and exploit this huge area? One would have to
purchase the land with a payment/bribe to the government, if that's
what you mean by it not being a frontier. But one might have to
pay/bribe the U.N. to set up colonies on the ocean floor, too. The
ocean bottom I believe is, outside of national waters, legally
international property.

> My advice to anyone who wants to explore a new world is to take up
> diving.
>
> ta
>
> Ralph
>
> PS
> I hope to be joining Dennis a crew member of the Atlantica
> Expeditions.

No problem with that, but this isn't human settlement.

Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (21)
1e. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony
Posted by: "William" wlm@... wlm_efn
Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:15 am (PST)
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
>
> --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, joe@ wrote:
> > Yeech. I certainly hope that doesn't happen! We're doing quite
> > enough damage to the ocean ecosystems just from the surface; I
> > shudder to think what would happen if we actually started
> > inhabiting them in large numbers.
>
> I couldn't agree more. One of the main reasons I'm an advocate of
> space exploration and settlement, and a member of this list, is: no
> pre-existing biospheres to lay waste to. (As far as we currently
> know.)

I suppose that some sort of *small-scale* ocean settlement could
occur, for this reason: man-made structures in shallow waters, and
on the ocean surface, are quite often places that are teeming with
fish and other life. They use these structures as places to shelter
or anchor themselves from ocean currents, and so sea-life communities
build up around them. There could be "homes" out on these places that
could double as seafood farms. Marshall Savage in "The Millenial
Project" talked about these sort of combination habitats.

This is not the deep ocean bottom, though. This is the far smaller
amount of area near coastlines or on the continental shelfs. Or, on
the ocean surface.

Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (21)
1f. Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony
Posted by: "Alex Michael Bonnici" albonnici@... Albonnici_1998
Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:00 am (PST)

Hello William and fellow spacesettlers,
In Marshall Savage's "The Millennial Project" combination habitats where to eventually move out to the deeper oceans where they would eventually increase the productivity of ocean zones nearly devoid of algae. He refers to these regions as "oceanic deserts". In the book Savage mentions that one of the side benefits of using OTEC power production is that bringing up cold nutrient rich water from the depths of the ocean would increase the productivity of these ocean deserts. So in a sense you are creating new habitats for life.

At the risk of stretching an analogy to far wouldn't that be like making the desert regions of Palestine bloom?

Best Regards,

Alex

From: William
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: [spacesettlers] Re: underseacolony.com : A Real Undersea Colony

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
>
> --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, joe@ wrote:
> > Yeech. I certainly hope that doesn't happen! We're doing quite
> > enough damage to the ocean ecosystems just from the surface; I
> > shudder to think what would happen if we actually started
> > inhabiting them in large numbers.
>
> I couldn't agree more. One of the main reasons I'm an advocate of
> space exploration and settlement, and a member of this list, is: no
> pre-existing biospheres to lay waste to. (As far as we currently
> know.)

I suppose that some sort of *small-scale* ocean settlement could
occur, for this reason: man-made structures in shallow waters, and
on the ocean surface, are quite often places that are teeming with
fish and other life. They use these structures as places to shelter
or anchor themselves from ocean currents, and so sea-life communities
build up around them. There could be "homes" out on these places that
could double as seafood farms. Marshall Savage in "The Millenial
Project" talked about these sort of combination habitats.

This is not the deep ocean bottom, though. This is the far smaller
amount of area near coastlines or on the continental shelfs. Or, on
the ocean surface.

Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (21) Recent Activity
a.. 2 New Members
Visit Your Group
a.. Science lab equipment
b.. Life sciences
c.. Space exploration
Science News

Get the latest

scientific news.

See bios & photos

Get to know The

Apprentice teams.

Y! GeoCities
Free Blogging

Share your views

with the world.

Need to Reply?
Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest.
Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web
Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar

Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional