Where should people mostly live?
and other industrial operations to throw off a lot of junk in a
relatively uncontrolled manner, without having it be in anyone's flight
path. So today I feel like having the big center of civilization be at
earth-sun Lagrange points.
I can see the reasoning here. Problem is, as soon as someplace
becomes the "center of civilization," or even "one of several centers
of civilization," there will be a lot of traffic. Which means that
junk thrown off willi-nilli will be in people's flight paths.
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophile"
>
> I can see the reasoning here. Problem is, as soon as someplace
> becomes the "center of civilization," or even "one of several centers
> of civilization," there will be a lot of traffic. Which means that
> junk thrown off willi-nilli will be in people's flight paths.
>
radiation shielding.. One major solar storm and everyone is toast...
Now as far as waste. A civilization with no waste management is going
to choke on its own trash.. With a good wast management plan they
should be free from a lot of space trash and so forth...
Radiation will likely be one of the biggest obstacles faced by any settlement out there anywhere. It's hard to appreciate just how much our wonderful little planet here does to protect us. Even in in low-Earth-orbit radiation is still going to be an issue for long term settlement.
For right now it's easy to discuss the social or organizational/political aspects of where we are going to place settlements, but until we get a little practice doing it, it's kind of difficult to fully explore the technical aspects. And unfortunately, without the technical side being considered, all the social and political organization schemes have to be taken with a grain of salt. Who really knows what technologies will or won't develop? Some things may become possible, but simply too expensive/difficult/dangerous, etc. We need to plan on starting with what we know (L-E-O), and then seeing where we can go next. But in the meantime, it is fun to speculate and fantasize about what might be someday.
At any rate, I think the center of civilization will choose its own location, regardless of any planning or intent by us. The principle of emergence at work.
Douglas May
CWA Local 6215 - Steward
From: the_gunfighter_45acp
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 11:06:02 PM
Subject: [spacesettlers] Re: Sun-earth Lagrange points vs earth-moon Lagrange points vs elsewhere
--- In spacesettlers@ yahoogroups. com, "Xenophile"
>
> I can see the reasoning here. Problem is, as soon as someplace
> becomes the "center of civilization, " or even "one of several centers
> of civilization, " there will be a lot of traffic. Which means that
> junk thrown off willi-nilli will be in people's flight paths.
>
Humm my worry is the civilization would have to have some really heavy
radiation shielding.. One major solar storm and everyone is toast...
Now as far as waste. A civilization with no waste management is going
to choke on its own trash.. With a good wast management plan they
should be free from a lot of space trash and so forth...
civilizations, hmm how many are there are we aware? what makes us
think ours wont make the same mistakes as we have? how much garbage
out there now? if we failed here what makes you think another place
will be different when human nature seems to have gotten less
humane? we will only be taken the same element with us. humans in
the present state of mind. seems we cant run from the reasons we now
have to leave, we will be taking it with us.
-- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, DOUG MAY wrote:
>
> Radiation will likely be one of the biggest obstacles faced by any
settlement out there anywhere. It's hard to appreciate just how much
our wonderful little planet here does to protect us. Even in in low-
Earth-orbit radiation is still going to be an issue for long term
settlement.
>
> I think settlements out in the open, especially ones closer to the
sun like the Earth-Sun L1, will be sparse for a while. It would
probably eventually be easy enough to shield the residential area of
the settlements and to dissipate the heat, but there would always be
weak points, including exterior electronics, and shuttle craft and
such.
>
> For right now it's easy to discuss the social or
organizational/political aspects of where we are going to place
settlements, but until we get a little practice doing it, it's kind
of difficult to fully explore the technical aspects. And
unfortunately, without the technical side being considered, all the
social and political organization schemes have to be taken with a
grain of salt. Who really knows what technologies will or won't
develop? Some things may become possible, but simply too
expensive/difficult/dangerous, etc. We need to plan on starting with
what we know (L-E-O), and then seeing where we can go next. But in
the meantime, it is fun to speculate and fantasize about what might
be someday.
>
> At any rate, I think the center of civilization will choose its own
location, regardless of any planning or intent by us. The principle
of emergence at work.
>
> Douglas May
> CWA Local 6215 - Steward
>
> From: the_gunfighter_45acp
> To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 11:06:02 PM
> Subject: [spacesettlers] Re: Sun-earth Lagrange points vs earth-
moon Lagrange points vs elsewhere
>
> --- In spacesettlers@ yahoogroups. com, "Xenophile"
>
> wrote:
>
> > I can see the reasoning here. Problem is, as soon as someplace
>
> > becomes the "center of civilization, " or even "one of several
centers
>
> > of civilization, " there will be a lot of traffic. Which means
that
>
> > junk thrown off willi-nilli will be in people's flight paths.
>
> Humm my worry is the civilization would have to have some really
heavy
>
> radiation shielding.. One major solar storm and everyone is toast...
>
> Now as far as waste. A civilization with no waste management is
going
Your cynicism is hard to miss. But you do have a point, to a point ...
The great thing about space is it has the Sun,... The best trash
disposal system in the solar system... All one have to do is send
space trash on a trajectory for the sun.. Wouldn't take whole lot of
energy to do that either...
harder to be the one to come up with workable solutions..
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "gale white"
Now I'm thinking it may be a collection of transfer orbits between near-
earth space and the main asteroid belt, timed so that every three
orbits (or whatever's feasible) it will pass perihelion when earth is
nearby.
>
> Where should people mostly live?
>
> I'm thinking it should be chosen to allow room for asteroid-catching
> and other industrial operations to throw off a lot of junk in a
> relatively uncontrolled manner, without having it be in anyone's
flight
> path. So today I feel like having the big center of civilization be
at