# 1312 bydromni@... on April 29, 2001, 2:46 a.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
From: "andy-nimmo"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [spacesettlers] social issues
> If we can find space jobs around the Solar System for a 100 million,
> that'll be a billion, not a hundred million jobs in the long run. At the
> recent BROHP Conference in Charterhouse I ended my talk by telling young
> folk not to try to become astronauts if they want to get paid to go to
> space. "Become the best wine waiter on this planet and you'll have a
> good chance." was my last sentence. Space tourism will take up a lot of
> that slack, but not enough. You are very right! We need lots more space
> projects to solve terrestrial unemployment problems.
>
Talking about space tourism, that guy Tito finally made it today - the first
space tourist became a reality!
However, since NASA was freaking out so much about Tito's vacation at ISS, I
kind of doubt that there will be other millionaires going there in the
upcoming months. Or will the Russians just ignore NASA's opposition and
create a spaceline for the rich and famous? I would like to know the
opinions of everyone in the list about this subject...
> Best wishes, Andy.
[snikt]
Best wishes, Lucio.
# 1313 byshinryuu64@... on April 29, 2001, 3:19 a.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
James Cameron is already in talks with Russia to go into space.
> From: "andy-nimmo"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [spacesettlers] social issues
>
> [snikt]
> > If we can find space jobs around the Solar System for a 100
million,
> > that'll be a billion, not a hundred million jobs in the long run.
At the
> > recent BROHP Conference in Charterhouse I ended my talk by
telling young
> > folk not to try to become astronauts if they want to get paid to
go to
> > space. "Become the best wine waiter on this planet and you'll
have a
> > good chance." was my last sentence. Space tourism will take up a
lot of
> > that slack, but not enough. You are very right! We need lots more
space
> > projects to solve terrestrial unemployment problems.
> >
> Talking about space tourism, that guy Tito finally made it today -
the first
> space tourist became a reality!
>
> However, since NASA was freaking out so much about Tito's vacation
at ISS, I
> kind of doubt that there will be other millionaires going there in
the
> upcoming months. Or will the Russians just ignore NASA's opposition
and
# 1314 bytjk@... on April 29, 2001, 5:20 a.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
I think that Dennis Tito is just one of many Rich people to come that
will to travel to space. Just like every other aspect of our
life, the rich will dominate space. Tito may just have unwittingly started
a trend.
pockets. NASA and the international space community may not allow other
rich people to use the International Space station as a playground, but
the box is open. They let one. Others with the economic means will
surely be launching themselves into orbit. I am sure there is more than
one "Rocket-man" building an orbital vehicle in a garage.
Even if there is a no trespassing sign on the space station, it is the
only place to go.
If the international community wants to control space tourism or make
it safer, the community should make a tiny space hotel next to the
international space station. With a tiny fare of $5,000,000 USD -
$20,000,000, for a one week journey, the international community could
then finance other space projects.
I would rather have money go in space than have it corrupt normally honest
Russian officials. For every Tito, there are 10,000 more Tito-like rich
that now are thinking that space will be a future holiday. Why not take the
money from these future space tourists and build better things.
If somebody doesn't, Russian officials will be simply watching their
off-shore accounts get bigger and bigger.
# 1315 byandy-nimmo@... on April 29, 2001, 1:04 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
Hi Lucio,
Russians for a trip. I think his name is 'John Cameron' and he is a
publisher of some kind, and there is talk of him being sent up next
year.
Last night members of ASTRA (the Association in Scotland To Research
into Astronautics) and the UK Space Settlers' celebrated the first day
of space tourism in a local Glasgow pub, which is where I learned of the
above, so I can't vouch for its authenticity. I also personally put the
talk I mentioned on the web yesterday. If anyone is interested you can
find it if you go to:
http://www.smartgroups.com/group/group.cfm?GID3394
then click on 'Documents' then scroll down to a folder called 'BROHP
Talks' and if you click on that you'll find it. I have asked fellow
members of the SDC who gave talks - about half a dozen of us did - if
they have them in suitable format if they'd upload a copy into this
folder, so more of the talks that were given ought to be appearing there
during the coming couple of weeks. That particular Conference was very
definitely one of the best I've ever attended, and I've been to quite a
few. I expect you will find some very interesting stuff coming into this
folder in the near future.
Unfortunately, many very interesting talks were given by folk not on our
web list, such as Alan Bond, designer of Hotol, and David Ashford of
Bristol Spaceplanes whose talk on his Ascender spaceplane immediately
followed mine. Still, I may be able to persuade some of them to let us
have a copy of their talks. It is also possible that the proceeings may
be published on the conference web site, in which case I'll put a link
in and let you folks know the URL.
Best wishes, Andy.
"Dr. Omni" wrote:
> From: "andy-nimmo"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [spacesettlers] social issues
>
> [snikt]
> > If we can find space jobs around the Solar System for a 100 million,
>
> > that'll be a billion, not a hundred million jobs in the long run. At
> the
> > recent BROHP Conference in Charterhouse I ended my talk by telling
> young
> > folk not to try to become astronauts if they want to get paid to go
> to
> > space. "Become the best wine waiter on this planet and you'll have a
>
> > good chance." was my last sentence. Space tourism will take up a lot
> of
> > that slack, but not enough. You are very right! We need lots more
> space
> > projects to solve terrestrial unemployment problems.
> >
> Talking about space tourism, that guy Tito finally made it today - the
> first
> space tourist became a reality!
>
> However, since NASA was freaking out so much about Tito's vacation at
> ISS, I
> kind of doubt that there will be other millionaires going there in the
>
> upcoming months. Or will the Russians just ignore NASA's opposition
> and
> create a spaceline for the rich and famous? I would like to know the
> opinions of everyone in the list about this subject...
>
> > Best wishes, Andy.
> [snikt]
>
> Best wishes, Lucio.
>
[www.debticated.com]
# 1316 byandy-nimmo@... on April 29, 2001, 1:05 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
Thanks Robert,
Best wishes, Andy.
Robert Reed wrote:
> James Cameron is already in talks with Russia to go into space.
>
> --- In spacesettlers@y..., "Dr. Omni" wrote:
> > From: "andy-nimmo"
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [spacesettlers] social issues
> >
> > [snikt]
> > > If we can find space jobs around the Solar System for a 100
> million,
> > > that'll be a billion, not a hundred million jobs in the long run.
> At the
> > > recent BROHP Conference in Charterhouse I ended my talk by
> telling young
> > > folk not to try to become astronauts if they want to get paid to
> go to
> > > space. "Become the best wine waiter on this planet and you'll
> have a
> > > good chance." was my last sentence. Space tourism will take up a
> lot of
> > > that slack, but not enough. You are very right! We need lots more
> space
> > > projects to solve terrestrial unemployment problems.
> > >
> > Talking about space tourism, that guy Tito finally made it today -
> the first
> > space tourist became a reality!
> >
> > However, since NASA was freaking out so much about Tito's vacation
> at ISS, I
> > kind of doubt that there will be other millionaires going there in
> the
> > upcoming months. Or will the Russians just ignore NASA's opposition
> and
> > create a spaceline for the rich and famous? I would like to know the
>
> > opinions of everyone in the list about this subject...
> >
> > > Best wishes, Andy.
> > [snikt]
> >
> > Best wishes, Lucio.
>
[www.newaydirect.com]
# 1317 byed_minchau@... on April 29, 2001, 4:15 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
--- In spacesettlers@y..., "Robert Reed" wrote:
> James Cameron is already in talks with Russia to go into space.
>
> --- In spacesettlers@y..., "Dr. Omni" wrote:
> > From: "andy-nimmo"
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [spacesettlers] social issues
> >
> > [snikt]
> > > If we can find space jobs around the Solar System for a 100
> million,
> > > that'll be a billion, not a hundred million jobs in the long
run.
> At the
> > > recent BROHP Conference in Charterhouse I ended my talk by
> telling young
> > > folk not to try to become astronauts if they want to get paid
to
> go to
> > > space. "Become the best wine waiter on this planet and you'll
> have a
> > > good chance." was my last sentence. Space tourism will take up
a
> lot of
> > > that slack, but not enough. You are very right! We need lots
more
> space
> > > projects to solve terrestrial unemployment problems.
> > >
> > Talking about space tourism, that guy Tito finally made it today -
> the first
> > space tourist became a reality!
> >
> > However, since NASA was freaking out so much about Tito's
vacation
> at ISS, I
> > kind of doubt that there will be other millionaires going there
in
> the
> > upcoming months. Or will the Russians just ignore NASA's
opposition
> and
> > create a spaceline for the rich and famous? I would like to know
the
# 1318 byaglobus@... on April 30, 2001, 6:53 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
>
> Talking about space tourism, that guy Tito finally made it today - the first
> space tourist became a reality!
>
> However, since NASA was freaking out so much about Tito's vacation at ISS, I
> kind of doubt that there will be other millionaires going there in the
> upcoming months. Or will the Russians just ignore NASA's opposition and
> create a spaceline for the rich and famous? I would like to know the
> opinions of everyone in the list about this subject...
>
tourist visits. Tito was ruled an exception (probably because the
Russians would send him no matter what). Personally, tourism is the
only way I see to make human space flight a profitable business. I also
see orbital hotels as the first step towards colonization.
--
Al Globus
aglobus@..., (650) 604-4404
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/~globus/home.html
The dinosaurs weren't spacefaring. We are. I don't think that's an
accident.
Maybe we are life's taxi to the stars.
I think we should:
1. Devote half of NASA's budget ($7 billion) to reaching NASA's 2020
goal of
reducing launch costs to Low-Earth-Orbit to $220/kg with a 0.01% failure
rate.
This should enable space tourism. The resulting orbital hotels will need
to
develop efficient orbital life support and other necessary technologies.
2. Build orbital space colonies. The materials in the largest asteroid
are
sufficient for orbital colonies with a combined surface area about 500
times
greater than Earth's. Eros alone could make over ten thousand space
colonies,
each with about about 10 square kilometers of 1g living area.
3. After a few generations of orbital living, people won't need their
colony
to be near Sol. Then small groups of colonies with populations in the
tens-of-thousands can set out on multi-decade journeys to nearby stars.
Except the launch goals, none of this is even a little bit official.
# 1319 byaglobus@... on April 30, 2001, 7:57 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
At one time, a trip to Europe was only for the wealthiest Americans.
Now it is easily within reach of the middle class (i.e., most of us).
At one time, a vacation in Hawaii was only for the rich, it's now well
within reach of the middle class. Today, a vacation in space is only
available to the very rich, but the market they create is ESSENTIAL to
lowering costs to the point where the middle class can take a vacation
in orbit tomorrow.
>
> I think that Dennis Tito is just one of many Rich people to come that
> will to travel to space. Just like every other aspect of our
> life, the rich will dominate space. Tito may just have unwittingly started
> a trend.
>
> NASA tried to stop Tito, but NASA couldn't. Tito had padded too many
> pockets. NASA and the international space community may not allow other
> rich people to use the International Space station as a playground, but
> the box is open. They let one. Others with the economic means will
> surely be launching themselves into orbit. I am sure there is more than
> one "Rocket-man" building an orbital vehicle in a garage.
> Even if there is a no trespassing sign on the space station, it is the
> only place to go.
>
> If the international community wants to control space tourism or make
> it safer, the community should make a tiny space hotel next to the
> international space station. With a tiny fare of $5,000,000 USD -
> $20,000,000, for a one week journey, the international community could
> then finance other space projects.
>
> I would rather have money go in space than have it corrupt normally honest
> Russian officials. For every Tito, there are 10,000 more Tito-like rich
> that now are thinking that space will be a future holiday. Why not take the
> money from these future space tourists and build better things.
> If somebody doesn't, Russian officials will be simply watching their
> off-shore accounts get bigger and bigger.
>
--
Al Globus
aglobus@..., (650) 604-4404
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/~globus/home.html
The dinosaurs weren't spacefaring. We are. I don't think that's an
accident.
Maybe we are life's taxi to the stars.
I think we should:
1. Devote half of NASA's budget ($7 billion) to reaching NASA's 2020
goal of
reducing launch costs to Low-Earth-Orbit to $220/kg with a 0.01% failure
rate.
This should enable space tourism. The resulting orbital hotels will need
to
develop efficient orbital life support and other necessary technologies.
2. Build orbital space colonies. The materials in the largest asteroid
are
sufficient for orbital colonies with a combined surface area about 500
times
greater than Earth's. Eros alone could make over ten thousand space
colonies,
each with about about 10 square kilometers of 1g living area.
3. After a few generations of orbital living, people won't need their
colony
to be near Sol. Then small groups of colonies with populations in the
tens-of-thousands can set out on multi-decade journeys to nearby stars.
Except the launch goals, none of this is even a little bit official.
# 1320 byjdw27_42@... on May 1, 2001, 2:05 a.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
--- In spacesettlers@y..., Al Globus wrote:
> At one time, a trip to Europe was only for the wealthiest
Americans. Now it is easily within reach of the middle class (i.e.,
most of us). At one time, a vacation in Hawaii was only for the rich,
it's now well within reach of the middle class. Today, a vacation in
space is only available to the very rich, but the market they create
is ESSENTIAL to lowering costs to the point where the middle class can
take a vacation in orbit tomorrow. <
the rich doing.
Also, on a TV show about the Oregon Trail, I heard that the real rush
started when the cost of the trip for a middle class family was about
equal to its life savings. I wonder if the same thing will happen for
outer space.
# 1321 byepibeemie@... on May 23, 2002, 5:05 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
On the down side, as I read somewhere recently, once you've got up and
admired the view, what else is there to do for 2 weeks? Even in it's
pre-Westernized state, a trip to Hawaii was lush, beautiful, serene and
temperate. By contrast, the author I was reading wrote something like, "So
once the novelty wears off, do you really think that comfort-loving
Americans are going to pay huge bucks for 2 weeks of nausea, poor sleep,
plastic-wrapped food, limited showering opportunities and cramped quarters,
just for the view?" To which I personally would say, "Sign me up!" But he
may have point about the pampered rich. Hopefully somebody at Disney or the
Hilton Group or the Ritz-Carlton Corporation are thinking hard about
zero-gravity recreation, zero-gravity culinary schools, and how to keep an
employee in a Mickey Mouse suit in space.
# 1322 byRavenart@... on May 23, 2002, 5:10 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
In a message dated 5/23/02 1:07:43 PM, epibeemie@... writes:
admired the view, what else is there to do for 2 weeks? >>
Like I has said before, start small with a space hop for a few hours. Use
the cashflow from those to build up space hotels with more things to do
beside looking out the windows for fun stuff like dances and sex and etc.
Carl E. Mullin
visionary artist and entrepreneur
homo asteralis
ravenart@...
www.ravenartstudio.com
# 1323 byaglobus@... on May 23, 2002, 6:21 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
zero-g sports, dance, play, and xxx should be pretty fantastic -- and
the view will keep many people occupied for quite some time.
> On the down side, as I read somewhere recently, once you've got up and
> admired the view, what else is there to do for 2 weeks?
Space tourism could be our ticket to the stars. Save your pennies,
suborbital flights for $100,000 may start in 2005! See
http://www.spaceadventures.com/suborbital for details.
Al Globus
CSC at NASA Ames Research Center
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/~globus/home.html
# 1324 byian.woollard@... on May 23, 2002, 10:23 p.m.
Member since 2021-10-03
Brad Walsh wrote:
> admired the view, what else is there to do for 2 weeks? Even in it's
> pre-Westernized state, a trip to Hawaii was lush, beautiful, serene and
> temperate.
I'm not aware of any complaints from the astronauts about
boredom; well, OK, some of the astronauts get a bit stir
crazy after many weeks or months cut off from their friends
and family, but I don't think this will be so much the case
over the length of most holidays.
--
- Ian Woollard (ian.woollard@...)
"Is a planetary surface the right place for an expanding
technological civilization?"
- Gerard O'Neill