>"Pan P"
>I suppose FTL discussions are also far off topic.
>
>We don't need a new paradigm in physics, many worlds QM will probably more than
suffice, all we need is a way to get to a universe with a much faster light
speed or much smaller spatial constant.
>
>Current existing theories allow for FTL using exotic forms of energy
or matter.

I think most scientists would consider any of the things you listed above becoming reality to be shift in the paradigm of physics. Different universes with different physical laws? Exotic forms of energy and matter for FTL travel? Though existing theories make some of these things theoretically possible, it is little 't' theory not the measureable, testable, useable, capital 'T' theory that you can hang your hat on.

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Smith" wrote:
>
> Well, I seriously doubt that we'll be starting to andromeda the day after tomorrow, but I've seen figures indicating that if, once we achieve travel at a significant percentage of lightspeed, mankind populates planets at it's current rate of growth that we could be looking for more room in the milky way within 50,000 years or less. Time dilation effects of near light speed combined with greatly increased longevity from Human medtech by then would make journeys to andromeda or other, nearer galactic swarms doable in acceptable time frames. I simply don't believe that we can ever be stopped if we can get a significant population freed from the planet on a permanent basis. Until then, we, the entire race, live in constant jeopardy.

I agree with the last statement and spreading to the nearest planets or even near space have proven to be a slow and expensive process. Getting to nearby stars are going to take a monumental feat. Leaving the galaxy at even light speed, theoretically not possible, and traveling 2.5 million years to the Andromeda galaxy does not seem like a possibility in the next 10,000 years at least. I do see ways to do it but they call on fantastic feats of engineering or totally unproven physics. Moving a star and her planets (and populations) out of a galaxy, worm hole travel, faster then light speed, like way way way faster then light speed. All of which call on either massive use of resources or a new physics.

Brooks

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "brooksn" wrote:
>
> >"Pan P"
> >I suppose FTL discussions are also far off topic.
> >
> >We don't need a new paradigm in physics, many worlds QM will probably more than
> suffice, all we need is a way to get to a universe with a much faster light
> speed or much smaller spatial constant.
> >
> >Current existing theories allow for FTL using exotic forms of energy
> or matter.
>
> I think most scientists would consider any of the things you listed above becoming reality to be shift in the paradigm of physics.
a shift is however not a new paradigm. The little t theories do exist already.
Different universes with different physical laws? Exotic forms of energy and matter for FTL travel? Though existing theories make some of these things theoretically possible, it is little 't' theory not the measureable, testable, useable, capital 'T' theory that you can hang your hat on.

true, if you are a human without access to the collective unconscious.

million year old civilizations have had FTL longer than there have been humans.

but i guess thats all out of bounds until you can get those waking theta states and see for yourself.

-OK, I finally get it...you're an operating thetan, correct?

From: pan p
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 3:39 AM
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [spacesettlers] Re: galactic colonization

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "brooksn" wrote:
>
> >"Pan P"
> >I suppose FTL discussions are also far off topic.
> >
> >We don't need a new paradigm in physics, many worlds QM will probably more than
> suffice, all we need is a way to get to a universe with a much faster light
> speed or much smaller spatial constant.
> >
> >Current existing theories allow for FTL using exotic forms of energy
> or matter.
>
> I think most scientists would consider any of the things you listed above becoming reality to be shift in the paradigm of physics.
a shift is however not a new paradigm. The little t theories do exist already.
Different universes with different physical laws? Exotic forms of energy and matter for FTL travel? Though existing theories make some of these things theoretically possible, it is little 't' theory not the measureable, testable, useable, capital 'T' theory that you can hang your hat on.

true, if you are a human without access to the collective unconscious.

million year old civilizations have had FTL longer than there have been humans.

but i guess thats all out of bounds until you can get those waking theta states and see for yourself.

i don't know what that means to you.

If you mean that I do have access to waking theta states of consciousness and thus the collective unconscious, yes.

I'm willing to admit the possibility that its all just between me and my brodmann's brain areas, but in the end that still doesn't matter.

I know how FTL works.

In fact , I know ten different ways to make FTL work.

Which means that at best the rest of you can play catch up, and
I'm working through your process with you as fast as I can to get to the part which is most interesting to me personally.

Which brings us back to square one.

This entire forum and the conversations here are not lucid. They aren't paving the way to the stars, they are chit chats and back slaps
about it.

To change up, we need some real design process, and that means that whatever your mind can come up with for the IMMEDIATE REALISTIC FUTURE
is the only thing that really matters.

It also means that space habitats on the surface of mars or the moon are just a little bit ridiculous and that solar sats are also just a sideshow.

As I have said, however, that won't prevent me from designing such things with you if you can only pull it together to actually exist inside of design process instead of mere chit chat.

the first person with posted sketches up gets the engineering and the architecture and the autocad.

Failing that within a week or so, and I'll cut my losses and go look for a group that CAN get its act together.

Inversely, just as I extend to you the courtesy to design habitats on planetary or lunar surfaces, or solar sats, It seems fair for you to entertain me and others as we work well ahead of schedule on Warp Drive.

I hope that this clarifies my position.
:)

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Smith" wrote: