--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, Joe Strout wrote:
> all the hydrogen in the [...] Oort cloud bodies
Even if there were as many as 10 trillion Oort cloud bodies over 1 kilometer in diameter, and if the Oort cloud had a volume of 33.5 quadrillion astronomical units (AU's), there would be still be only one such Oort cloud body for every 3,351 cubic AU's.
...And even if you were only one AU away from one, you still wouldn't be able to see it, because it would be cloaked in pitch blackness.
Why not just wait for Oort cloud bodies to come to you? 94 such bodies have already been identified:
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/stats/
Because, as you may have inferred from the NAME of this group, we (with the probable exception of YOU) re all interested in SPACE SETTLEMENT, not sitting on a groundhog planet waiting to be on the receiving end of an extraterrestrial visitor. WE represent the cutting edge of Human endeavor and adventure. WE choose (or would, given the chance) to go where no one has gone before, and then set up housekeeping there. We choose to do this for a wide variety of reasons, not least among them to escape from a planetfull of pessimistic nay-sayers wholl never admit that Humanity needs to leave the nest and mature, even in the face of multiple potential disaster scenarios that everyone knows will happen eventually and will potentially end all life on Earth when they do. Most of us realize that this wont be a grand romantic journey, but will instead entail long months of boredom punctuated by intense periods of hard gritty labor. Long periods of loneliness capped by moments of often terrifying action. But we are more than willing to do this, because we know that unless Mankind progresses as a species, evolving and maturing into an interstellar species, chances are very good that he will end by destroying himself, or if not, then an outside phenomenon of some sort will accomplish that for him. We choose to fight stasis and apathy and nay-sayers at every turn because if WE DONT, WHO WILL?
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 6:42 PM
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [spacesettlers] How does one find an Oort cloud body? (was Re: Motherlode Earth)
--- In mailto:spacesettlers%40yahoogroups.com, Joe Strout wrote:
> all the hydrogen in the [...] Oort cloud bodies
How does one find an Oort cloud body? Even if you could be instantly transported right now to wherever the thickest part of the Oort cloud supposedly were, how many more millions of years would it take you, with at least 50% probability, to find even a single body in that darkness-cloaked ocean of emptiness?
Even if there were as many as 10 trillion Oort cloud bodies over 1 kilometer in diameter, and if the Oort cloud had a volume of 33.5 quadrillion astronomical units (AU's), there would be still be only one such Oort cloud body for every 3,351 cubic AU's.
...And even if you were only one AU away from one, you still wouldn't be able to see it, because it would be cloaked in pitch blackness.
Why not just wait for Oort cloud bodies to come to you? 94 such bodies have already been identified:
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/stats/
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Smith" wrote:
> WE represent the cutting edge of Human endeavor and adventure.
I'm confidant astronomers using the detection methods that found Sedna and other deep small bodies in the solar system, or other future methods will eventually find Oort cloud bodies.
Brooks
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "hitssquad" wrote:
On 6/13/13 9:42 AM, brooksn wrote:
> and other deep small bodies in the solar system, or other future methods
> will eventually find Oort cloud bodies.
Agreed. And, to be clear, Kuiper belt bodies are fair game too. I
imagine the colonization of the solar system will start with cislunar
space, proceed to Mars (for mainly sentimental reasons, IMHO) and its
moons, then to asteroids in both the main belt and in the inner solar
system, thence to the gas giant systems (each of which is like a
miniature solar system in its own right, with lots of easily accessible
material), and then spread out to the Kuiper belt, and finally the Oort
cloud (first the inner Hills cloud, and then the outer one).
By that point, we'll notice that the next Oort cloud over (bound to the
Centauri system) is only a short jump away... and when all the other
objects in our own Oort cloud have been claimed, sooner or later,
somebody will decide it's worth going the extra light-year or two, even
if it takes them a century to make the trip.
Best,
- Joe
P.S. As for detecting them: "four currently known trans-Neptunian
objects 90377 Sedna, 2000 CR105, 2006 SQ372, and 2008 KV42 are
considered possible members of the inner Oort cloud." (From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud)
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, Joe Strout wrote:
> As for detecting them: "four currently known trans-Neptunian objects 90377 Sedna, 2000 CR105, 2006 SQ372, and 2008 KV42 are considered possible members of the inner Oort cloud." (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud)
"Part of the difficulty is that these objects are extremely rare. Despite having surveyed most of the northern sky for bright objects of this type, astronomers have found only one other that might belong to the same class as 2008 KV42. Discovered in 2002 by the Deep Ecliptic Survey, (127546) 2002 XU93 has an orbit on a 77-degree tilt."
Now try finding these "bright objects" where there's no light: the Oort cloud.
And as we find them, and the resources they represent, they will be the key to our spreading into interstellar space...slowly, true, but an exploring existence has always suited Mankind. And as we work our way out through our Oort cloud, eventually well begin working our way IN tthrough some other stars Cloud and into its system proper. AND ON AND ON, BUILDING AND POPULATING HABITATS AND COLONIES AS WE GO.
From: brooksn
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:42 AM
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [spacesettlers] How does one find an Oort cloud body? (was Re: Motherlode Earth)
Considering we've gone from zero extrasolar planets 20 years ago to 891 today and gone from Pluto as a planet to Pluto demoted due to finding similar bodies in it's neighborhood I doubt it'll take millions of years to find the first one.
Brooks
--- In mailto:spacesettlers%40yahoogroups.com, "hitssquad" wrote:
With very powerful radar beams.
weightlessness of space.
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "hitssquad" wrote:
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
> > How does one find an Oort cloud body?
> With a huge telescope kilometers in aperture.
I have also wondered if we can use star eclipses to find Oort Cloud Objects
(OOOs). With billions of stars in the Milk Way background, it seems likely
that occasionally OOOs would pass in front of them and "turn them off"
briefly. But I haven't yet run the numbers in order to see how feasible is
that: what is the likelihood of a comet a couple of AUs occluding a star,
how much time the event would last, and so on.
Exactly, Joe! Why settle down (and I do mean DOWN) on a planet when there
are so many more aqccessible bodies out there? I agree with your assessment
as to the progression of settlement. I can see us USING planets, for their
available resources, IF those resources can be easily harvested from space-
dipping hydrogen fuel out of Jupiter's and Saturn's envelopes will probably
prove feasible, and possibly the other gas giants as well. The Jovian and
Saturnian systems, themselves will yield unknowable bonanzas for Human
advancement as we explore and discover types of matter unknown anywhere
else.. And of course, we'll be using the big boys for gravity slings for as
long as they, and we exist. But the true treasures are the snowballsand
asteroids, those roving resources that contain so many of the necessary
volatiles that we'll need to live and prosper in space. Sure we'll make the
jump from cloud to loud. A century isn't all that long, when you take your
world with you on your journeying. Someone pointed out, not that long ago,
that FTL is not a necessary technological development for us to conquor the
Galaxy. Humans, spreading just like this, filling our own system out to the
rarified edges, the part of interstellar space where Oort Clouds intermix,
and then inward toward the newer Primary would work very well.
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:25 PM
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [spacesettlers] How does one find an Oort cloud body? (was Re:
Motherlode Earth)
On 6/13/13 9:42 AM, brooksn wrote:
> I'm confidant astronomers using the detection methods that found Sedna
> and other deep small bodies in the solar system, or other future methods
> will eventually find Oort cloud bodies.
Agreed. And, to be clear, Kuiper belt bodies are fair game too. I
imagine the colonization of the solar system will start with cislunar
space, proceed to Mars (for mainly sentimental reasons, IMHO) and its
moons, then to asteroids in both the main belt and in the inner solar
system, thence to the gas giant systems (each of which is like a
miniature solar system in its own right, with lots of easily accessible
material), and then spread out to the Kuiper belt, and finally the Oort
cloud (first the inner Hills cloud, and then the outer one).
By that point, we'll notice that the next Oort cloud over (bound to the
Centauri system) is only a short jump away... and when all the other
objects in our own Oort cloud have been claimed, sooner or later,
somebody will decide it's worth going the extra light-year or two, even
if it takes them a century to make the trip.
Best,
- Joe
P.S. As for detecting them: "four currently known trans-Neptunian
objects 90377 Sedna, 2000 CR105, 2006 SQ372, and 2008 KV42 are
considered possible members of the inner Oort cloud." (From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud)
maybe we better bring a flashlight with us. Flashlights seem to be developing apace, so by the time we make it to the Kuyper Belt and Oort Cloud, they should be quite impressive- just the thing for finding objects in the bad ol dark!
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 7:46 PM
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [spacesettlers] How does one find an Oort cloud body? (was Re: Motherlode Earth)
--- In mailto:spacesettlers%40yahoogroups.com, Joe Strout wrote:
> As for detecting them: "four currently known trans-Neptunian objects 90377 Sedna, 2000 CR105, 2006 SQ372, and 2008 KV42 are considered possible members of the inner Oort cloud." (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud)
All four of those are closer than 100 AU from the sun, and the last one was discovered at only 32 AU (or about as far from the sun as Neptune). As it's article notes:
"Part of the difficulty is that these objects are extremely rare. Despite having surveyed most of the northern sky for bright objects of this type, astronomers have found only one other that might belong to the same class as 2008 KV42. Discovered in 2002 by the Deep Ecliptic Survey, (127546) 2002 XU93 has an orbit on a 77-degree tilt."
Now try finding these "bright objects" where there's no light: the Oort cloud.
There is light out there, just extremely dim. Far below the ability
of human eyes to see them or even the best telescopes around now.