We've been working on prototyping water features (lakes, rivers, ponds)
for High Frontier, and thought others here may find it interesting:

http://highfrontierblog.com/2014/10/07/placing-water-in-high-frontier/

The space colony shown in the video is a small one (150 m radius), but
still has room for some decent-sized bodies of water. I think seeing a
lake curve up the wall is quite interesting.

(Al: the opening bit defining a space colony by its park-like
environment was not a jibe; I recognize that real colonies may be much
more like a dense European city than, say, Kansas. I just needed some
way to introduce the topic!)

Cheers,
- Joe

One of the cool things you can do with waterways in a settlement and ones that go completely around and join themselves, meaning you can swim or boat indefinitely in one direction. Should have interesting implications for races.

On Oct 7, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Joe Strout joe@... [spacesettlers] wrote:

> We've been working on prototyping water features (lakes, rivers, ponds)
> for High Frontier, and thought others here may find it interesting:
>
> http://highfrontierblog.com/2014/10/07/placing-water-in-high-frontier/
>
> The space colony shown in the video is a small one (150 m radius), but
> still has room for some decent-sized bodies of water. I think seeing a
> lake curve up the wall is quite interesting.
>
> (Al: the opening bit defining a space colony by its park-like
> environment was not a jibe; I recognize that real colonies may be much
> more like a dense European city than, say, Kansas. I just needed some
> way to introduce the topic!)
>
> Cheers,
> - Joe
>

On Oct 7, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Joe Strout
joe@...
[spacesettlers] <
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
We've been working on prototyping water features (lakes, rivers, ponds)

for High Frontier, and thought others here may find it interesting:
http://highfrontierblog.com/2014/10/07/placing-water-in-high-frontier/
The space colony shown in the video is a small one (150 m radius), but

still has room for some decent-sized bodies of water. I think seeing a

lake curve up the wall is quite interesting.
(Al: the opening bit defining a space colony by its park-like

environment was not a jibe; I recognize that real colonies may be much

more like a dense European city than, say, Kansas. I just needed some

way to introduce the topic!)
Cheers,
- Joe

On 10/9/14 7:35 PM, Al Globus alglobus@... [spacesettlers] wrote:

> One of the cool things you can do with waterways in a settlement and
> ones that go completely around and join themselves, meaning you can swim
> or boat indefinitely in one direction. Should have interesting
> implications for races.

Quite right! One thing I'm very curious about is what the currents
would do in such a situation. Could you get a continuous current in one
direction? Or would the water pretty much just sit there, with little
current at all? I suspect the latter, but I don't think it's ever been
studied well enough to say for sure.

- Joe

On Oct 9, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Joe Strout joe@... [spacesettlers] wrote:

> On 10/9/14 7:35 PM, Al Globus alglobus@... [spacesettlers] wrote:
>
>> One of the cool things you can do with waterways in a settlement and
>> ones that go completely around and join themselves, meaning you can swim
>> or boat indefinitely in one direction. Should have interesting
>> implications for races.
>
> Quite right! One thing I'm very curious about is what the currents
> would do in such a situation. Could you get a continuous current in one
> direction? Or would the water pretty much just sit there, with little
> current at all? I suspect the latter, but I don't think it's ever been
> studied well enough to say for sure.

If you dont do something, it will probably just sit there.

What you can do is put a little gradient in it so it flows and, in a few places, pump it up. There is an Endless River a the water park in San Jose and they are able to do the pumping in a way that doesnt interfere with being able to swim. Dont know how they do it.

You could make it flow thermally, the sun would heat it at one point, so it
rises slightly, and it's possible to have pipes on the outside of the
structure which would be cooler to make it sink again; and that can
naturally set up a flow. It wouldn't be a very strong flow; but it might
well be worth doing; cooling the structure is one problem and this would
help with that.

With care you could make a circular river flow in a consistent direction I
think, but you'd have to be a bit sneaky.

On 10 October 2014 03:19, Joe Strout joe@... [spacesettlers] <
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> On 10/9/14 7:35 PM, Al Globus alglobus@... [spacesettlers] wrote:
>
> > One of the cool things you can do with waterways in a settlement and
> > ones that go completely around and join themselves, meaning you can swim
> > or boat indefinitely in one direction. Should have interesting
> > implications for races.
>
> Quite right! One thing I'm very curious about is what the currents
> would do in such a situation. Could you get a continuous current in one
> direction? Or would the water pretty much just sit there, with little
> current at all? I suspect the latter, but I don't think it's ever been
> studied well enough to say for sure.
>
> - Joe
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>

--
-Ian Woollard

With care you could make a circular river flow in a consistent direction I think, but you'd have to be a bit sneaky.
On 10 October 2014 03:19, Joe Strout
joe@...
[spacesettlers]
<
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
>
On 10/9/14 7:35 PM, Al Globus
alglobus@...
[spacesettlers] wrote:
> One of the cool things you can do with waterways in a settlement and
> ones that go completely around and join themselves, meaning you can swim
> or boat indefinitely in one direction. Should have interesting
> implications for races.
Quite right! One thing I'm very curious about is what the currents
would do in such a situation. Could you get a continuous current in one
direction? Or would the water pretty much just sit there, with little
current at all? I suspect the latter, but I don't think it's ever been
studied well enough to say for sure.
- Joe
Yahoo Groups Links

Your email settings:
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-Ian Woollard

On 10/8/14 6:40 PM, Robert Palms harlockacadia@... [spacesettlers]

> Consider pipelines going around the circumference. The moving water
> provides a way to regulate the colony rotation.

That's an interesting idea. Or it could be combined with Al's idea of
pumping current into a central river (like the "lazy river" attractions
common at water parks). Although I don't know if you'd want the current
in your river tied to how much errors in the colony rotation have
accumulated...

- Joe

On 10/24/14 12:16 PM, harlockacadia@... [spacesettlers] wrote:

> I was thinking water treatment not river. The centrifugal force would
> do most of the work separating solids from the liquid. Pumped up to a
> surface pipe where it flashes into steam and exposed to solar UV to
> sterilize it. The steam will directed to an expansion chamber returning
> fresh water to the system.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I do like the notion of taking
advantage of the space environment to make some industrial processes easier.

> Two more parts to circulating water around the colony; first, gyroscopic
> stabilization aforementioned; second, cheap temperature control.

Yeah, there are going to be all sorts of neat engineering opportunities
like this, for sure!

Best,
- Joe

Hmm. Interesting point.

Space settlements are certainly going to need a bonefide sewage treatment
plant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewage_treatment

On 24 October 2014 19:16, harlockacadia@... [spacesettlers] <
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
> I was thinking water treatment not river. The centrifugal force would do
> most of the work separating solids from the liquid. Pumped up to a surface
> pipe where it flashes into steam and exposed to solar UV to sterilize it.
> The steam will directed to an expansion chamber returning fresh water to
> the system.
>
> Two more parts to circulating water around the colony; first, gyroscopic
> stabilization aforementioned; second, cheap temperature control.
>

--
-Ian Woollard

Space settlements are certainly going to need a bonefide sewage treatment plant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewage_treatment
On 24 October 2014 19:16,
harlockacadia@...
[spacesettlers]
<
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
>
I was thinking water treatment not river. The centrifugal force would do most of the work separating solids from the liquid. Pumped up to a surface pipe where it flashes into steam and exposed to solar UV to sterilize it. The steam will directed to an expansion chamber returning fresh water to the system.
Two more parts to circulating water around the colony; first, gyroscopic stabilization aforementioned; second, cheap temperature control.
-Ian Woollard

It would sure be a mess if the rotation was ever disrupted or stopped.

What is the mechanism for maintaining the rotation of the habitat?
Thrusters/motors? Just curious.

What is the mechanism for maintaining the rotation of the habitat? Thrusters/motors? Just curious.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 09:04:06AM -0500, David Jarrell speckledpig@... [spacesettlers] wrote:
> What is the mechanism for maintaining the rotation of the habitat?
> Thrusters/motors? Just curious.

The way I'd like to do it is have the co-rotating pairs with an electric
motor that can make up for losses. Inertia, of course, does most the
"work", so the motor would need very little power. With two habitats,
they can push off each other to solve the conservation of momentum problem -
the overall angular momentum would always be zero, since they spin opposite
directions.

On 10/31/14 8:04 AM, David Jarrell speckledpig@... [spacesettlers]

> It would sure be a mess if the rotation was ever disrupted or stopped.

Sure would! Of course stopping a 2 megatonne rotating mass would
require a major disaster anyway. Angular momentum can't just
disappear... unless you have a counter-rotating mass and a net angular
momentum of zero, I suppose.

More likely, if a habitat is poorly designed, is that it would start to
tumble. Same angular momentum, just around a different axis. The water
in this case would then pool in the endcaps (or whatever you have
furthest away from that axis).

Of course in real life, surely the engineers will think of that and
design a habitat that is stable around the intended spin axis!

> What is the mechanism for maintaining the rotation of the habitat?
> Thrusters/motors? Just curious.

Yeah, like Adam, I favor using electric motors, which requires a
counter-rotating section (or other mass). Of course this does raise the
possibility of your rotation stopping, which as you say, sure would be a
mess!

Best,
- Joe

On 11/10/14 12:21 PM, harlockacadia@... [spacesettlers] wrote:

> Air circulation in a space colony can not be dependent on machines. It
> needs to be a mater of design, geography and thermally. Remember this
> is a big space, machines big enough would be power gluttons and heat
> generators.

Yes. Air circulation in a space colony is a topic that's ripe for more
research. It's complex and I don't think very well understood yet.

> FLYING, is how most people will get around the colony. Once contact
> with the ground is lost you are in a ZERO G environment.

Hmm, no. Even in a vacuum, at the moment you lose contact with the
ground you will continue traveling in a straight line at your current
velocity. That straight line leads to... the ground (which is
constantly accelerating "up" from your frame of reference). You come
right back down. The net effect is very much like gravity, whether
you're in contact with anything or not.

In fact even if the colony itself isn't rotating, you can get the same
effect if you move fast enough around a circular track, as demonstrated
on Skylab years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi2R24pFYjk

(Ignore the sad ignorance of the conspiracy nut who posted the video.)

Best,
- Joe

P.S. 14 days to go on the High Frontier KickStarter! Please support us
if you can: http://kck.st/1tAsuQI

On Nov 10, 2014, at 11:21 AM, harlockacadia@... [spacesettlers] wrote:

> Once contact with the ground is lost you are in a ZERO G environment. Most will probably use a compressed air or electric turbine jet pack.

Yes, but when you jump up from a spinning hull you still have nearly the velocity (direction and speed) of the hull you were on. So, you will very quickly come back in contact with the hull. In practice, at typical space settlement design sizes (hundreds of meters radius) if you jump up you will land pretty close to where you would have in a non-rotating environment.

If you want to zoom around with wings and jet packs youll need to first go to the axis of rotation (or near it) and null out the velocity youve got at the hull.

harlockacadia@...
[spacesettlers] <
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
Once contact with the ground is lost you are in a ZERO G environment. Most will probably use a compressed air or electric turbine jet pack.
Yes, but when you jump up from a spinning hull you still have nearly the velocity (direction and speed) of the hull you were on. So, you will very quickly come back in contact with the hull. In practice, at typical space settlement design sizes (hundreds of meters radius) if you jump up you will land pretty close to where you would have in a non-rotating environment.
If you want to zoom around with wings and jet packs youll need to first go to the axis of rotation (or near it) and null out the velocity youve got at the hull.

On 11/13/14 9:11 AM, sailorbarsoom@... [spacesettlers] wrote:

> When I design zero-G sports I usually state that the referee has a jet
> pack, so that he can stay close to the action but also stay out of the
> way. It's an "unfair advantage" the refs have over the athletes, which
> is OK because they're not competing against them.

Makes sense to me. Designing such a jet pack would be a very
interesting engineering exercise. It needs to be very agile, but still
as small and quiet as possible. It doesn't need to use actual jets or
rockets, because it's in an atmosphere; probably it would use propellers
of some kind (though those tend to be noisy). And as for power, it
needs to reliably last one quarter of the game, but not necessarily more
than that.

The cool thing about space colonies is that you get to live, work, sleep
etc. under a full 1G, or whatever level we determine is best for health
(of children especially). And yet, you can play at any other G level
you want, including zero-G, just by taking the tram (or whatever) to
that part of the habitat. Try *that* on your Mars colony, Elon! :)

Cheers,
- Joe

HighFrontier KickStarter: 12 Days Left!
Please help if you can: http://kck.st/1tAsuQI

Actually, a human powered device; like a pedal-powered unicycle with two
axial counter-rotating propellers instead of wheels might be interesting.

You could race them.

On 13 November 2014 16:48, Joe Strout joe@... [spacesettlers] <
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> On 11/13/14 9:11 AM, sailorbarsoom@... [spacesettlers] wrote:
>
> > When I design zero-G sports I usually state that the referee has a jet
> > pack, so that he can stay close to the action but also stay out of the
> > way. It's an "unfair advantage" the refs have over the athletes, which
> > is OK because they're not competing against them.
>
> Makes sense to me. Designing such a jet pack would be a very
> interesting engineering exercise. It needs to be very agile, but still
> as small and quiet as possible. It doesn't need to use actual jets or
> rockets, because it's in an atmosphere; probably it would use propellers
> of some kind (though those tend to be noisy). And as for power, it
> needs to reliably last one quarter of the game, but not necessarily more
> than that.
>
> The cool thing about space colonies is that you get to live, work, sleep
> etc. under a full 1G, or whatever level we determine is best for health
> (of children especially). And yet, you can play at any other G level
> you want, including zero-G, just by taking the tram (or whatever) to
> that part of the habitat. Try *that* on your Mars colony, Elon! :)
>
> Cheers,
> - Joe
>
> HighFrontier KickStarter: 12 Days Left!
> Please help if you can: http://kck.st/1tAsuQI
>
> Posted by: Joe Strout
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>

--
-Ian Woollard

You could race them.
On 13 November 2014 16:48, Joe Strout
joe@...
[spacesettlers]
<
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
>
On 11/13/14 9:11 AM,
sailorbarsoom@...
[spacesettlers] wrote:
> When I design zero-G sports I usually state that the referee has a jet
> pack, so that he can stay close to the action but also stay out of the
> way. It's an "unfair advantage" the refs have over the athletes, which
> is OK because they're not competing against them.
Makes sense to me. Designing such a jet pack would be a very
interesting engineering exercise. It needs to be very agile, but still
as small and quiet as possible. It doesn't need to use actual jets or
rockets, because it's in an atmosphere; probably it would use propellers
of some kind (though those tend to be noisy). And as for power, it
needs to reliably last one quarter of the game, but not necessarily more
than that.
The cool thing about space colonies is that you get to live, work, sleep
etc. under a full 1G, or whatever level we determine is best for health
(of children especially). And yet, you can play at any other G level
you want, including zero-G, just by taking the tram (or whatever) to
that part of the habitat. Try *that* on your Mars colony, Elon! :)
Cheers,
- Joe
HighFrontier KickStarter: 12 Days Left!
Please help if you can:
http://kck.st/1tAsuQI
Posted by: Joe Strout <
joe@...
>
Yahoo Groups Links

Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
To change settings online go to:

To change settings via email:

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Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:

-Ian Woollard

http://ssi.org/assets/images/Ch06p095.gif

>From http://ssi.org/space-art/the-don-davis-high-frontier-artshow/

Regards,
Mike Combs

From: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:31 AM
To: spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [spacesettlers] Re: lakes & ponds in a space colony

Actually, a human powered device; like a pedal-powered unicycle with two axial counter-rotating propellers instead of wheels might be interesting.

You could race them.

http://ssi.org/assets/images/Ch06p095.gif

From
http://ssi.org/space-art/the-don-davis-high-frontier-artshow/

Regards,
Mike Combs

From:
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com]
Sent:
Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:31 AM
To:
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
Re: [spacesettlers] Re: lakes & ponds in a space colony

Actually, a human powered device; like a pedal-powered unicycle with two axial counter-rotating propellers instead of wheels might be interesting.
You could race them.

I'm talking about something more like a pedal powered helicopter you stand
on for use in low-g.

On 13 November 2014 19:28, 'Combs, Mike' mikecombs@... [spacesettlers] <
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
> http://ssi.org/assets/images/Ch06p095.gif
>
> From http://ssi.org/space-art/the-don-davis-high-frontier-artshow/
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike Combs
>
> *From:* spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:31 AM
> *To:* spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [spacesettlers] Re: lakes & ponds in a space colony
>
> Actually, a human powered device; like a pedal-powered unicycle with two
> axial counter-rotating propellers instead of wheels might be interesting.
>
> You could race them.
>

--
-Ian Woollard

On 13 November 2014 19:28, 'Combs, Mike'
mikecombs@...
[spacesettlers]
<
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
>
http://ssi.org/assets/images/Ch06p095.gif

From
http://ssi.org/space-art/the-don-davis-high-frontier-artshow/

Regards,
Mike Combs

From:
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
]
Sent:
Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:31 AM
To:
spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
Re: [spacesettlers] Re: lakes & ponds in a space colony

Actually, a human powered device; like a pedal-powered unicycle with two axial counter-rotating propellers instead of wheels might be interesting.
You could race them.

-Ian Woollard