I think the technologies to do this are just about
there right now. Integrating them is going to be
tricky though.

Ok. I read in New Scientist recently about something that is
being researched- 3D printers.

Forget 3D images. A 3D printer is a descendent of the rapid
prototyping machines. It builds objects from combinations of
materials in carefully calculated positions, building it up
layer by layer, scanning the shape out with a nozzle that
squirts material out at the right moment. This allows a very
wide range of structures to be built.

Anyway what's the first thing you build when you get a
3D printer? Another 3D printer, naturally ;-)

It occured to me that a 3D printer is the main component
required for a Von Neumann machine. The main other
component being some way to manufacture silicon chips/
solar panels (fairly easy to do in a vacuum), purify
the necessary materials (not totally straightforward)
and mining (ditto).

In theory you could send a single Von Neumann machine out to
the asteroid belt, it would mine the asteroids, reproduce,
and then return home and jump straight into a hopper...

Anyway I think its a fun idea. Oh yeah and making
sure no 'mutations' occur is rather important...
(return of the killer robots isn't my idea of fun!)

Yes, the potential of Von Neumann machines is staggering. In "2081: A
Hopeful View of the Human Future", Gerard O'Neill wrote about how it was not
out of the question that any sufficiently advanced civilization could have a
probe in orbit around EVERY star in the galaxy, given probe replication
using indigenous materials. Sort of blows the whole, "They're not here
because they just haven't found us yet in this vast galaxy," argument out of
the water.

Which leaves us with one of two conclusions: Either we're the only
technological race in the galaxy, or there are probes in our solar system
right now from other races; probes which are capable of eluding detection.

Of course another issue regarding Von Neumann machines is that they present
the potential to completely re-order an entire solar system, or even major
portions of the galaxy. Which then invites the question of why we can't see
any evidence of this happening elsewhere in the galaxy.

Regards,

Mike Combs

From: Ian Woollard [mailto:ian.woollard@...]

It occured to me that a 3D printer is the main component
required for a Von Neumann machine. The main other
component being some way to manufacture silicon chips/
solar panels (fairly easy to do in a vacuum), purify
the necessary materials (not totally straightforward)
and mining (ditto).

In theory you could send a single Von Neumann machine out to
the asteroid belt, it would mine the asteroids, reproduce,
and then return home and jump straight into a hopper...

Which leaves us with one of two conclusions: Either we're the only technological race in the galaxy, or there are probes in our solar system right now from other races; probes which are capable of eluding detection.

Of course another issue regarding Von Neumann machines is that they present the potential to completely re-order an entire solar system, or even major portions of the galaxy. Which then invites the question of why we can't see any evidence of this happening elsewhere in the galaxy.

Regards,
Mike Combs
From:
Ian Woollard [mailto:ian.woollard@...]
It occured to me that a 3D printer is the main component
required for a Von Neumann machine. The main other
component being some way to manufacture silicon chips/
solar panels (fairly easy to do in a vacuum), purify
the necessary materials (not totally straightforward)
and mining (ditto).
In theory you could send a single Von Neumann machine out to
the asteroid belt, it would mine the asteroids, reproduce,
and then return home and jump straight into a hopper...

From: Combs, Mike
To: 'spacesettlers@egroups.com'
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:34 AM
Subject: RE: [spacesettlers] way-out idea

Yes, the potential of Von Neumann machines is staggering. In "2081: A Hopeful View of the Human Future", Gerard O'Neill wrote about how it was not out of the question that any sufficiently advanced civilization could have a probe in orbit around EVERY star in the galaxy, given probe replication using indigenous materials. Sort of blows the whole, "They're not here because they just haven't found us yet in this vast galaxy," argument out of the water.

Which leaves us with one of two conclusions: Either we're the only technological race in the galaxy, or there are probes in our solar system right now from other races; probes which are capable of eluding detection.

Tom - There is a third, namely that UFOs represent interstellar visitors that are attempting to get us used to the idea of not being top dog technologically. The TV video featuring the world's best footage of UFO's is very convincing and difficult to refute.

Of course another issue regarding Von Neumann machines is that they present the potential to completely re-order an entire solar system, or even major portions of the galaxy. Which then invites the question of why we can't see any evidence of this happening elsewhere in the galaxy.

Tom - It makes sense for us to assume that we are alone for now. If we are alone, the sooner we start to colonize the stars the better chance we have of beating other emerging civilizations, and if we are not alone, the sooner we attempt to leave the solar system, the sooner they will show them selves since we may be heading for one of their colonized planets/systems.
Cheers,

Tom

Regards,

Mike Combs

From: Ian Woollard [mailto:ian.woollard@...]

It occured to me that a 3D printer is the main component
required for a Von Neumann machine. The main other
component being some way to manufacture silicon chips/
solar panels (fairly easy to do in a vacuum), purify
the necessary materials (not totally straightforward)
and mining (ditto).

In theory you could send a single Von Neumann machine out to
the asteroid belt, it would mine the asteroids, reproduce,
and then return home and jump straight into a hopper...

Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here!

From:
Combs, Mike
To:
'spacesettlers@egroups.com'
Sent:
Monday, December 18, 2000 5:34 AM
Subject:
RE: [spacesettlers] way-out idea
Yes, the potential of Von Neumann machines is staggering. In "2081: A Hopeful View of the Human Future", Gerard O'Neill wrote about how it was not out of the question that any sufficiently advanced civilization could have a probe in orbit around EVERY star in the galaxy, given probe replication using indigenous materials. Sort of blows the whole, "They're not here because they just haven't found us yet in this vast galaxy," argument out of the water.

Which leaves us with one of two conclusions: Either we're the only technological race in the galaxy, or there are probes in our solar system right now from other races; probes which are capable of eluding detection.

Tom - There is a third, namely that UFOs represent interstellar visitors that are attempting to get us used to the idea of not being top dog technologically. The TV video featuring the world's best footage of UFO's is very convincing and difficult to refute.

Of course another issue regarding Von Neumann machines is that they present the potential to completely re-order an entire solar system, or even major portions of the galaxy. Which then invites the question of why we can't see any evidence of this happening elsewhere in the galaxy.

Tom - It makes sense for us to assume that we are alone for now. If we are alone, the sooner we start to colonize the stars the better chance we have of beating other emerging civilizations, and if we are not alone, the sooner we attempt to leave the solar system, the sooner they will show them selves since we may be heading for one of their colonized planets/systems.
Cheers,

Tom
Regards,
Mike Combs
From:
Ian Woollard [mailto:ian.woollard@...]
It occured to me that a 3D printer is the main component
required for a Von Neumann machine. The main other
component being some way to manufacture silicon chips/
solar panels (fairly easy to do in a vacuum), purify
the necessary materials (not totally straightforward)
and mining (ditto).
In theory you could send a single Von Neumann machine out to
the asteroid belt, it would mine the asteroids, reproduce,
and then return home and jump straight into a hopper...

>
> Which leaves us with one of two conclusions: Either we're the only
> technological race in the galaxy, or there are probes in our solar
system
> right now from other races; probes which are capable of eluding
detection.
>
I'm curious, how would you know a probe?

> Of course another issue regarding Von Neumann machines is that they
present
> the potential to completely re-order an entire solar system, or even
major
> portions of the galaxy. Which then invites the question of why we
can't see
> any evidence of this happening elsewhere in the galaxy.

At a stellar level our ability to detect anything out side of our
solar system approaches zero, so a re-ordered solar system 100 LY from
here would be undetectable. Anyway how can we tell between reordered
or not?

Also consider a real advanced civilization may simply be artificial
intelligence. They never land on planets because they can't. They
enter a solar system, use up a asteroid or two procreating for a
thousand years, then move on. I understand the need for social
structures, but has anyone seriously considered an alien civilization
made up of solitary AI's that come together once every 10 million
years to talk about what happened.

Bill