Hi! I'm a new members. The group concern over which would be best,
an orbital space platform or a landed colony on a planet. May I
suggest that it might be similar to the experience the Polynesians
experienced 1,000 years ago. They had the vast reaches of the whole
Pacific Ocean before the. Distances seemed endless. As it turned
out, they sent outriggers filled with people, food, seeds and
livestock on what presented to them to be endless voyages. We could
liken the outriggers to space stations and space travel. But what
really counted was eventual landfall for the few lucky ones. Only
then were they exposed to resources and could expland in population
and culture again. This is our problem too. An orbital space
platform may ultimately be available which would be self-sustaining.
Everything could be recycled. But it would mean a stationary
population. In my book, this is not good enough. We have expaned
from a few thousand ignorant hunter-gatherings during the last
100,000 years and have now filled this planet. It is so crowded, in
fact, that we have to take on the task of spreading out into the
universe in the way the Polynesians spread out and populated the
Pacific ocean. I see the human race moving further and further into
the rest of the universe during the next 1000 years.
Please check out my new website at: humanpurpose.simplenet.com
2exiles
2exiles:
> and further into
> the rest of the universe during the next 1000 years.
I believe it too. And the space islands looks quite
close to the life in polynesia, specially in Easter
Island. However, I believe isolation will only be
achieved when settlements go to the stars. In the
solar system, communications will keep all the
colonies quite close.
Population growth, I believe, is not an issue anymore.
People worldwide is having less children. I believe in
a century from now the problem will be nobody will
want to parent kids. And notice that I am typing in
South America, where population growth is starting to
stop sharply. Besides, Easter Island is chilean, as I
am!! I got several polynesian friends from there.
Welcome,
Omar Vega
How true! Isolation would start when we colonize beyond our solar
system. Yes, and world population is beginning to slow up a little.
They call it the bell curve. After a while it gets flat, then
declines. Sometimes the decline becomes precipitous. With religious
reaction and WMD plus terrorism, I wish we did have the centuries for
population to level off which you mention.
see: humanpurpose.simplenet.com and I would like to see what you
think. I would appreciate your comments.
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, omar vega wrote:
Wow!! I took a look to your site "2exiles" and I find
it very interesting.
God is beyond human capabilities, or that we will
never know about it. My personal attitude is: perhaps
God does not exists, but how much I miss him (or it).
However, I do believe that religion has a human
purpose. The world is full of uncertainties, and it's
quite obvious that our fellow human beings sometimes
are very uncaring about us. For the sake of mental
health, people need the certainty that this chaos is
controlled and that life has a purpose. That need
exists, and science does not answer the questions
people really want to get answered: who I am, where do
I came from, where will I go after death.
So, while people remain afraid of life, religion will
continue with us. It will evolve, for sure. I believe
it will pass from being dogmatic to symbolic. From
teological to ritualistic.
I think it is a great idea to write about the search
of "the purpose of life". And, as any other human
being, I wish I would know the answer.
Good site but be careful with the fanatics, and keep
in touch,
Regards,
Omar Vega
--- twoexiles wrote:
> I am agnostic, that is, I believe that knowledge of
> God is beyond human capabilities, or that we will
> never know about it. My personal attitude is: perhaps
> God does not exists, but how much I miss him (or it).
> However, I do believe that religion has a human
> purpose. The world is full of uncertainties, and it's
> quite obvious that our fellow human beings sometimes
> are very uncaring about us. For the sake of mental
> health, people need the certainty that this chaos is
> controlled and that life has a purpose. That need
> exists, and science does not answer the questions
> people really want to get answered: who I am, where do
> I came from, where will I go after death.
Religion has no purpose to me. In fact, I consider it scary and dangerous.
To each his own. I don't want to add to the world's uncertanties by adding
a capcrious and draconic deity to it all, imposing his moral superiority
over
me. The whole idea of a god is detrimental to my mental health; if you take
the more original concepts of the monotheistic religions, i.e. the orthodox
interpretation, I go to hell, no second chance. I don't want people who
believe
in that kind of horrible metaphysical fascism governing my future. The whole
idea that a god has anything more to say than common sense and science is
horrid. Don't these people get it? The god they believe in sends people to
HELL. No court of appeals. No change of ideas. Finito. Infinito.
> So, while people remain afraid of life, religion will
> continue with us. It will evolve, for sure. I believe
> it will pass from being dogmatic to symbolic. From
> teological to ritualistic.
One can only hope medical science will remove the need for a religion.
It will take a while, and after that everyone can choose his own mental
makeup; with out without psychotic fantasies; with or without religious
beliefs. Hey, it might even be a marketable good ! Chips with religious
experiences, insert buddism, take it out, then insert sufi islam. Nice for
cocktail parties.
> I think it is a great idea to write about the search
> of "the purpose of life". And, as any other human
> being, I wish I would know the answer.
Well, do realise you might be staring at fata morgana. This question has
the same trappings as asking "what's north of the north pole?". Nothing.
The question has no meaning. It refers to nothing. It is a semantic
game.
> Good site but be careful with the fanatics, and keep
> in touch,
Yeah, fanatics. Tell me about it.
Omar's comments are appreciated. The name sounds Muslim. I worked
three years in a Muslim country and still have Muslim friends we e-
mail back and forth. I think it can be tough for an agnostic in a
Muslim nation. I had to offically list my religion as "Christian" or
I would not have even gotten to work there. I guess I am because I
sort-of observe Christmas, Easter (rabbit day!) observe the Christian
callender and the Biblical marital system of patriarchal monogamy.
together, united we stand. Because of millions of years of
biological evolution, we are instinctively social animals built
around the hunting-gathering group. When we developed language, we
had to also develop religion because we instinctively look to the
alpha male hunting-gathering group leadership for cues. What the
alpha males believed the group believed. This worked out well
because it enabled huge groups of people to be bound together in
societies merely be the spread of these religions. It is the feeling
of having a belief in common which is so comforting. It has nothing
to do with "spirits." We could be even better comforted, unitd, and
moral with a modern, more advance religion which has nothing to do
with "spirits."
Thanks for looking at my website: humanpurpose.simplenet.com
2exiles
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, omar vega wrote:
I agree with you. What we call "religion" is just superstition-in-
the-making. We need science and science is advanced. What I meant
was that "religion" is used only for OLD beliefs, and ancient beliefs
are, by their nature, less advanced. There has been progress in
world society for thousands of years. A religion is merely a closed
system of thinking built up from answers to 4 questions. When the
four answers are advanced and self-consistent, they form a foundation
for society. Christianity formed a firm foundation 2,000 years ago
in a world which believed in thousands of gods. Now, we need a
scientific "foundation" which answers the 4 questions
without "spirits" so we can build a new civilization like the
Christians once did.
--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Subscriptions"
wrote:
> > I am agnostic, that is, I believe that knowledge of
> > God is beyond human capabilities, or that we will
> > never know about it. My personal attitude is: perhaps
> > God does not exists, but how much I miss him (or it).
>
> I don't miss that ... 'thing'. Better of without it. Brrr...
>
> > However, I do believe that religion has a human
> > purpose. The world is full of uncertainties, and it's
> > quite obvious that our fellow human beings sometimes
> > are very uncaring about us. For the sake of mental
> > health, people need the certainty that this chaos is
> > controlled and that life has a purpose. That need
> > exists, and science does not answer the questions
> > people really want to get answered: who I am, where do
> > I came from, where will I go after death.
>
> Religion has no purpose to me. In fact, I consider it scary and
dangerous.
> To each his own. I don't want to add to the world's uncertanties by
adding
> a capcrious and draconic deity to it all, imposing his moral
superiority
> over
> me. The whole idea of a god is detrimental to my mental health; if
you take
> the more original concepts of the monotheistic religions, i.e. the
orthodox
> interpretation, I go to hell, no second chance. I don't want people
who
> believe
> in that kind of horrible metaphysical fascism governing my future.
The whole
> idea that a god has anything more to say than common sense and
science is
> horrid. Don't these people get it? The god they believe in sends
people to
> HELL. No court of appeals. No change of ideas. Finito. Infinito.
>
> > So, while people remain afraid of life, religion will
> > continue with us. It will evolve, for sure. I believe
> > it will pass from being dogmatic to symbolic. From
> > teological to ritualistic.
>
> One can only hope medical science will remove the need for a
religion.
> It will take a while, and after that everyone can choose his own
mental
> makeup; with out without psychotic fantasies; with or without
religious
> beliefs. Hey, it might even be a marketable good ! Chips with
religious
> experiences, insert buddism, take it out, then insert sufi islam.
Nice for
> cocktail parties.
>
> > I think it is a great idea to write about the search
> > of "the purpose of life". And, as any other human
> > being, I wish I would know the answer.
>
> Well, do realise you might be staring at fata morgana. This
question has
> the same trappings as asking "what's north of the north pole?".
Nothing.
I'm a big fan of Things Polynesian. But in this case, the better
comparison might be the Aymara Indians of Lake Titicaca, who build
their own islands. Actually, a combination of the Polynesians and
the Aymara would be a good comparison. The Great Voyagers crossed
with The Island Builders. Throw in a dash of the Dutch ("God made
the world, but the Dutch made Holland"), and I think we've got it.
Yes, you've got it rightf! I agree. The contrasting view would be of the Easter Islanders who got crowded on their little island and then over-crowded, used up all their trees, fought among themselves and declined.
Xenophile wrote:
I'm a big fan of Things Polynesian. But in this case, the better
comparison might be the Aymara Indians of Lake Titicaca, who build
their own islands. Actually, a combination of the Polynesians and
the Aymara would be a good comparison. The Great Voyagers crossed
with The Island Builders. Throw in a dash of the Dutch ("God made
the world, but the Dutch made Holland"), and I think we've got it.
Good point Xenophile,
me. Could you tell me more about those Titicaca
islands? The Dutch case is very well known.
In polynesia, I believe the case of Easter Island is
paradigmatic. There, in a small island the size
perhaps of Island One (my lessons from the book),
people tried to survive against of odds in complete
isolation. They developed a new culture and created an
original system of writing, but. That's big but. They
made such a ecological crisis that they got almost
extinct. A good lesson for Earth!!! A warning signal
for space settlements, I guess.
Regards,
Omar Vega
--- Xenophile wrote:
> I'm a big fan of Things Polynesian. But in this
> case, the better
> comparison might be the Aymara Indians of Lake
> Titicaca, who build
> their own islands. Actually, a combination of the
> Polynesians and
> the Aymara would be a good comparison. The Great
> Voyagers crossed
> with The Island Builders. Throw in a dash of the
> Dutch ("God made
> the world, but the Dutch made Holland"), and I think
> we've got it.
>
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
--- In spacesettlers, omar vega wrote:
Thank you.
> You know. I live in South America but you surprised
> me. Could you tell me more about those Titicaca
> islands? The Dutch case is very well known.
Well, I did a little nosing around, so that I'd have something more
than memories of old National Geographic and one Google search (which
is how I got the name "Aymara"). My nosing about reveals that the
islands were actually built by the Uros, but that the Uros have since
blended with the Aymara. The Uros (and now the Uros/Aymara) build
boats of reeds, and some of them went the next step and built whole
floating islands of them. I understand that they have houses,
chickens, goats, and reed boats docked alongside. While they eat
chicken and goat, their main food source is fish from Lake Titicaca.
This is like bringing some stuff from Earth, but mostly using the
environment of Space.
This site offers tours:
http://www.andeantravelweb.com/peru/destinations/puno/islands.html
This site describes a trip to the floating islands (with some
wonderful pictures):
http://www.andrys.com/peru8.html
And one more for good measure:
http://www.putnamservice.com/jere/travel/peru/uros.htm
> In polynesia, I believe the case of Easter Island is
> paradigmatic. There, in a small island the size
> perhaps of Island One (my lessons from the book),
> people tried to survive against of odds in complete
> isolation. They developed a new culture and created an
> original system of writing, but. That's big but. They
> made such a ecological crisis that they got almost
> extinct. A good lesson for Earth!!! A warning signal
> for space settlements, I guess.
>
> Regards,
>
> Omar Vega
This is a good point. And the sad thing is, it didn't have to be
that way. They could have used the trees (back when they had trees)
to build boats and go a'voyaging, as their ancestors had done. All
the effort put into building those magnificent statues would've been
sufficient to carry them to Tahiti or the Cook Islands. The world
would've lost out on the statues, but Easter Island would've remained
a wooded paradise (just as space settlement will be good for the
environment of Earth).
Thank you Xenophile,
Well ancient Easter Island is, in a smaller scale,
like the planet Earth right now. If we continue
destroying the Earth at the pace we do right now the
only way to survive will be going to space
settlements. I hope both Earth and the space
settlements could exist at the same time!!!
Regards,
Omar Vega
--- Xenophile wrote:
> --- In spacesettlers, omar vega wrote:
>
> > Good point Xenophile,
>
> Thank you.
>
> > You know. I live in South America but you
> surprised
> > me. Could you tell me more about those Titicaca
> > islands? The Dutch case is very well known.
>
> Well, I did a little nosing around, so that I'd have
> something more
> than memories of old National Geographic and one
> Google search (which
> is how I got the name "Aymara"). My nosing about
> reveals that the
> islands were actually built by the Uros, but that
> the Uros have since
> blended with the Aymara. The Uros (and now the
> Uros/Aymara) build
> boats of reeds, and some of them went the next step
> and built whole
> floating islands of them. I understand that they
> have houses,
> chickens, goats, and reed boats docked alongside.
> While they eat
> chicken and goat, their main food source is fish
> from Lake Titicaca.
> This is like bringing some stuff from Earth, but
> mostly using the
> environment of Space.
>
> This site offers tours:
>
http://www.andeantravelweb.com/peru/destinations/puno/islands.html
>
> This site describes a trip to the floating islands
> (with some
> wonderful pictures):
> http://www.andrys.com/peru8.html
>
> And one more for good measure:
>
http://www.putnamservice.com/jere/travel/peru/uros.htm