
I have just finished reading about Dan Goldin's speech at the MIT
graduation.
This is what he said: "You will make my dream come true, not in 50 years,
but in the next 10 to 20,". Apparently the statement was met with great
applause.
He made a reference to how a person in a spacesuit's would climb down a
latter and 'her' boot would make a crunching noise as it touched the ground.
I am very enthusiastic about the idea of a woman touching the ground first
at Mars, I would not have it any other way, but I would rather that this
women be followed by 9,999 other people just like me, ordinary space
citizens, and for this to happen 50 or even 100 years from now (even if I
could live forever I would have no intentions of going to mars, except of
course to ski mons olympus, but lets say I did.) Dan Goldin would like to
see this women followed by perhaps 5-10 other 'astronauts', and for this to
happen in only 20 years: monopolizing global space resources for these very
patriotic and selective few.
People seem to enthusiastically support such ideas because they cannot see
any other options: go to mars or do nothing. People who I have talked to do
not even understand why I would believe in such things as space colonies, as
if I was talking about the moon missions being faked because the Klingons
have a base on the far side of the moon! They ask ignorant questions before
I can say the bitat in 'Space Habitat' my favorite being 'but wouldn't it
just be easier to terraform another planet'. Call me ignorant, but I don't
see how planets that are naturally hostile to life (supposedly) could ever
maintain a stable ecosystem before crashing every 500 years!
I know this is all old news, but I get so worked up when I read about these
things. If I ever needed to play a grumpy old man in a movie I would just
have to LOOK at a picture of Dan Goldin (I'm sure he's a nice guy)! Again I
apologize to this list.

People seem to enthusiastically support such ideas because they cannot see
any other options: go to mars or do nothing. I consider this the major problem we High Frontier types face when advocating our positions to other space enthusiasts. They ask ignorant questions before
I can say the bitat in 'Space Habitat' my favorite being 'but wouldn't it
just be easier to terraform another planet'. I've run into this same curious reversal of logic myself. One person I debated on a space newsgroup expressed the opinion that the O'Neill plan simply represented a lot of "unnecessary moving around of materials and wasting of energy, when you could instead just tweak a planet until it's just right." I expressed the opinion that "tweaking a planet" was a feat worthy of the Magratheans. People seem to feel that a preexisting planet somehow meets you halfway to your goal in a way that I don't feel is logically supportable. What it boils downs to is which is more difficult: building the equivalent of a small South Seas island from below the ground up, or totally reengineering the atmosphere and surface of an entire planet? I know which is going to be easier, but many don't see it that way. Call me ignorant, but I don't
see how planets that are naturally hostile to life (supposedly) could ever
maintain a stable ecosystem before crashing every 500 years! One of the arguments I got was that space habitats will require ongoing maintenance, while planets will not. I allowed that that was certainly the case for Earth, but like you, doubted that a terraformed planet would be maintenance-free.
Mike Combs

I read an article on this too.
Mars Apollo style, he has always been guarded about his statements on
the issue.
I noticed now though that since his demise seems imminent he has come
out of the 'Mars closet' (for want of a better phrase) and is
constantly touting the idea of Man on Mars in 20 years time.
I feel exactly the same myself and it is good to see other people
thinking the same as sometimes I think I'm on my own and maybe I'm
wrong to think there are better ideas.
I just wish that the pro-O'Neillites had a bit more say in what goes
on in NASA. What is needed is a pro-O'Neill administrator for NASA.
Are there any candidates anyone knows of?
For the record I do actually like Dan Goldin, he has a great
personality and is good at dealing with politicians, he has also
brought NASA back into the limelight in a positive fashion. I just
wished he didn't have Mars-mania like the rest of them.
> I have just finished reading about Dan Goldin's speech at the MIT
> graduation.
> This is what he said: "You will make my dream come true, not in 50
years,
> but in the next 10 to 20,". Apparently the statement was met with
great
> applause.
> He made a reference to how a person in a spacesuit's would climb
down a
> latter and 'her' boot would make a crunching noise as it touched
the ground.
> I am very enthusiastic about the idea of a woman touching the
ground first
> at Mars, I would not have it any other way, but I would rather that
this
> women be followed by 9,999 other people just like me, ordinary space
> citizens, and for this to happen 50 or even 100 years from now
(even if I
> could live forever I would have no intentions of going to mars,
except of
> course to ski mons olympus, but lets say I did.) Dan Goldin would
like to
> see this women followed by perhaps 5-10 other 'astronauts', and for
this to
> happen in only 20 years: monopolizing global space resources for
these very
> patriotic and selective few.
> People seem to enthusiastically support such ideas because
they cannot see
> any other options: go to mars or do nothing. People who I have
talked to do
> not even understand why I would believe in such things as space
colonies, as
> if I was talking about the moon missions being faked because the
Klingons
> have a base on the far side of the moon! They ask ignorant
questions before
> I can say the bitat in 'Space Habitat' my favorite being 'but
wouldn't it
> just be easier to terraform another planet'. Call me ignorant, but
I don't
> see how planets that are naturally hostile to life (supposedly)
could ever
> maintain a stable ecosystem before crashing every 500 years!
> I know this is all old news, but I get so worked up when I
read about these
> things. If I ever needed to play a grumpy old man in a movie I
would just
> have to LOOK at a picture of Dan Goldin (I'm sure he's a nice
guy)! Again I

One thing I noticed recently is that the press coverage of the NEAR
Shoemaker mission was pretty abysmal. Each week that Atlanta newspapers
have some article or another on the Shuttle or ISS, but only thrice did I
see anything in the local paper concerning NEAR Shoemaker. The NEAR
Shoemaker project was a complete success, exceeding expectations despite a
harrowing beginning, and it did all this on a small budget ($223 million,
soup to nuts). NEAR Shoemaker was a whole lot closer to the type of
project that will open up the High Frontier than are ISS or the Shuttle,
but the press coverage of NEAR Shoemaker was a small fraction of these
other projects. NASA plays no small part in determining what appears in
local newspapers through the process of press releases, press conferences,
etc.
things that are popular with the hoi polloi are
* People in space
* Mars
* The search for life (e.g., Mars, Europa)
Goldin is running an entertainment enterprise.
I heard that Goldin has never been too fond of the idea of a Pluto probe
because "no one gives a **** about Pluto", or some such comment. He only
changed his mind when the scientific community screamed after the
cancellation. It is interesting that the scientific community has such
clout that they can get probes to Pluto and Mercury authorized, despite
what I perceive to be lack of extensive public support for such projects.
I guess we need our own powerful special interest group ...
Ron Menich
"Zachary
me.com>
06/11/01
04:41 PM
Please
respond to
ssi_list
I have just finished reading about Dan Goldin's speech at the MIT
graduation.
This is what he said: "You will make my dream come true, not in 50 years,
but in the next 10 to 20,". Apparently the statement was met with great
applause.
He made a reference to how a person in a spacesuit's would climb down a
latter and 'her' boot would make a crunching noise as it touched the
ground.
I am very enthusiastic about the idea of a woman touching the ground first
at Mars, I would not have it any other way, but I would rather that this
women be followed by 9,999 other people just like me, ordinary space
citizens, and for this to happen 50 or even 100 years from now (even if I
could live forever I would have no intentions of going to mars, except of
course to ski mons olympus, but lets say I did.) Dan Goldin would like to
see this women followed by perhaps 5-10 other 'astronauts', and for this to
happen in only 20 years: monopolizing global space resources for these very
patriotic and selective few.
People seem to enthusiastically support such ideas because they
cannot see
any other options: go to mars or do nothing. People who I have talked to
do
not even understand why I would believe in such things as space colonies,
as
if I was talking about the moon missions being faked because the Klingons
have a base on the far side of the moon! They ask ignorant questions
before
I can say the bitat in 'Space Habitat' my favorite being 'but wouldn't it
just be easier to terraform another planet'. Call me ignorant, but I don't
see how planets that are naturally hostile to life (supposedly) could ever
maintain a stable ecosystem before crashing every 500 years!
I know this is all old news, but I get so worked up when I read
about these
things. If I ever needed to play a grumpy old man in a movie I would just
have to LOOK at a picture of Dan Goldin (I'm sure he's a nice guy)! Again
I
apologize to this list.

Some good news is out there... Mars Express will take pictures of Phobos;
c.f., http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=5104.
rmenich@...
08:30 AM
Please
respond to
ssi_list
One thing I noticed recently is that the press coverage of the NEAR
Shoemaker mission was pretty abysmal. Each week that Atlanta newspapers
have some article or another on the Shuttle or ISS, but only thrice did I
see anything in the local paper concerning NEAR Shoemaker. The NEAR
Shoemaker project was a complete success, exceeding expectations despite a
harrowing beginning, and it did all this on a small budget ($223 million,
soup to nuts). NEAR Shoemaker was a whole lot closer to the type of
project that will open up the High Frontier than are ISS or the Shuttle,
but the press coverage of NEAR Shoemaker was a small fraction of these
other projects. NASA plays no small part in determining what appears in
local newspapers through the process of press releases, press conferences,
etc.
What I deduct is that NASA in general wants to do popular missions, and
things that are popular with the hoi polloi are
* People in space
* Mars
* The search for life (e.g., Mars, Europa)
Goldin is running an entertainment enterprise.
I heard that Goldin has never been too fond of the idea of a Pluto probe
because "no one gives a **** about Pluto", or some such comment. He only
changed his mind when the scientific community screamed after the
cancellation. It is interesting that the scientific community has such
clout that they can get probes to Pluto and Mercury authorized, despite
what I perceive to be lack of extensive public support for such projects.
I guess we need our own powerful special interest group ...
Ron Menich
"Zachary
ssi_list@...
years.
me.com>
06/11/01
04:41 PM
Please
respond to
ssi_list
I have just finished reading about Dan Goldin's speech at the MIT
graduation.
This is what he said: "You will make my dream come true, not in 50 years,
but in the next 10 to 20,". Apparently the statement was met with great
applause.
He made a reference to how a person in a spacesuit's would climb down a
latter and 'her' boot would make a crunching noise as it touched the
ground.
I am very enthusiastic about the idea of a woman touching the ground first
at Mars, I would not have it any other way, but I would rather that this
women be followed by 9,999 other people just like me, ordinary space
citizens, and for this to happen 50 or even 100 years from now (even if I
could live forever I would have no intentions of going to mars, except of
course to ski mons olympus, but lets say I did.) Dan Goldin would like to
see this women followed by perhaps 5-10 other 'astronauts', and for this to
happen in only 20 years: monopolizing global space resources for these very
patriotic and selective few.
People seem to enthusiastically support such ideas because they
cannot see
any other options: go to mars or do nothing. People who I have talked to
do
not even understand why I would believe in such things as space colonies,
as
if I was talking about the moon missions being faked because the Klingons
have a base on the far side of the moon! They ask ignorant questions
before
I can say the bitat in 'Space Habitat' my favorite being 'but wouldn't it
just be easier to terraform another planet'. Call me ignorant, but I don't
see how planets that are naturally hostile to life (supposedly) could ever
maintain a stable ecosystem before crashing every 500 years!
I know this is all old news, but I get so worked up when I read
about these
things. If I ever needed to play a grumpy old man in a movie I would just
have to LOOK at a picture of Dan Goldin (I'm sure he's a nice guy)! Again
I
apologize to this list.

If I ever needed to play a grumpy old man in a movie I
would just have to LOOK at a picture of Dan Goldin (I'm
sure he's a nice guy)!
civil servants or contractors), would disagree with that
statement.
He strikes me as a charming bully. Charming when he has
to be, a bully when he can.
I don't think his "reforms" were actually reforms, for
the most part. "Faster, better, cheaper" turned out to
be mostly cheaper. The X-33 project was a signal
failure. And the probes to Mars? Well, Pathfinder
worked. But successor missions failed -- and for reasons
that were easily preventable. I don't object to failure
-- I object to stupid, incompetent failure.
Early on Goldin got a reputation as a man who used his
newly acquired power to settle old scores.
I'm glad I'm out of NASA -- the lies and abuse just got
to be too much. NASA needs major reform -- and humanity
also needs an independent space industry that can stand
on its own.
Chuck Divine