http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59690-2003Apr8.html

Seems to me that there is a huge disconnect between NASA managers
and engineers.

Don't managers work their way up from the engineering ranks? Or are
they accountants and lawyers?

Also, notice towards the end of the article, the plans for the
future of the Shuttle program.

TangoMan

>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59690-2003Apr8.html
>
>Seems to me that there is a huge disconnect between NASA managers
>and engineers.
>
>Don't managers work their way up from the engineering ranks? Or are
>they accountants and lawyers?
>
It's not about where they come from. I used to work in a large
corporation. The people that do well in corporations tend to be people
who smile a lot and rarely talk about bad things. You often need more
managers wandering around telling everyone how it's all going to end in
tears, because sometimes it does.

>Also, notice towards the end of the article, the plans for the
>future of the Shuttle program.
>
It might even be sensible to do this (I say this as someone with a
love/hate relationship with the Shuttle). The cost of the Shuttle has
actually come down in recent years. It's nearly getting to be cost
competitive with the other launch systems; for example Ariane (which is
very competitive internationally). Making the Shuttle last a bit longer
might actually free up some funds and give some time to build a system
that would actually be a lot cheaper. (Provided they don't mess with the
design too much...)

>TangoMan
>
-Ian

Motto: "You're Not Authorized to Know Our Motto."
"War is never right, unless of course there is a second UN resolution" - Private Eye
"War, huh? What is it good for?" - Frankie goes to Hollywood
"Getting reelected" - G. Bush

Thank you for this invaluable post!

>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59690-2003Apr8.html
>
>Seems to me that there is a huge disconnect between NASA managers
>and engineers.
>
>Don't managers work their way up from the engineering ranks? Or are
>they accountants and lawyers?

They used to until the 1980's when the dreadful MBA appeared...

In Japan, Korea managers know their company, staff and engineering still.

>Also, notice towards the end of the article, the plans for the
>future of the Shuttle program.

I hope carbon fibres will be used... instead of Aluminium!!!
(Columbia "discovered" aluminium explodes at plasma regimes...)

James D. Traill wrote: I hope carbon fibres will be used... instead of Aluminium!!! Don't believe the hype. Carbon fibre composite burns more easily, fails at lower temperatures and typically has really, really astonishingly bad thermal conductivity; small failures of the thermal protection system are more likely to lead to a bad day, because locally the temperature will reach the decomposition point of the material.

However, some nanotube composites are getting good heat conductivity's, but they still fail at much too low temperatures for re-entry purposes for Shuttle use.
(Columbia "discovered" aluminium explodes at plasma regimes...) No it didn't. Aluminium burns if it gets hot enough, but only after it has boiled.

The Shuttle lost tiles every flight before Columbia. Shuttle's are perfectly allowed to lose the odd tile; but it's not supposed to lose them over a wide area. Every time the Shuttle lost a tile it allowed plasma to play onto aluminum, but the aluminum just sucked the heat right away- occasionally it melted a bit and they had to repair it; but no drama, no flames, no explosion. It's pretty benign. It's designed to do that when you lose a tile; it's even ok to soften a bit. The trick is that aluminum has to get to a pretty high temperature to combust; you have to boil it first, and that's difficult as the liquid form has even better heat conductivity than the solid form (aluminum is about the fourth best heat conductor known, after copper and diamond, and now carbon nanotubes). So the aluminum doesn't get that hot, it's too busy sucking the heat away, even if there is plasma playing right on it.

At the moment it's looking like Columbia lost a great big panel- it literally fell off in orbit and floated away leaving the leading edge of the vehicle of the left wing uncovered and with a hole in the wing to boot. I mean, aluminum is good; but it's not that good.

By way of contrast, carbon composites will easily burn if you lose a tile. As in catch fire; as in land and then watch the Shuttle need putting out with hoses. If it even makes it that far. That's because of the low combustion point, way below even the melting point of aluminum. And even making nanotube composites doesn't help- the plastic holding them together fails. (Well, ok it might work if you actively cooled it, but it's very seriously not easy). -- -Ian Motto: "You're Not Authorized to Know Our Motto." "War is never right, unless of course there is a second UN resolution" - Private Eye "War, huh? What is it good for?" - Frankie goes to Hollywood "Getting reelected" - G. Bush