A while back someone suggested to me that I read "Songs of a Distant
Earth" by Arthur C. Clarke. I've now done so and I've question that
I'd like to put to you.

As many of you know, Sir Clarke is very antagonistic towards
religions and in this book all the world's knowledge is computerized
and forms a database to educate the settlers on a planet orbiting
Alpha Centauri. The database has every reference to religion
expunged even if that means sacrificing Shakespeare, Galileo's
battle with the Church, etc for the sake of not polluting the minds
of the settlers with religous mumbo-jumbo and the very concept of
gods.

OK, that's the set-up from the book.

So, let's say that we're now able to have many Habitats in Earth
Orbit, and these Habitats can be crucibles for many different
societal experiments.

One group of people decide that they want to live amongst others who
profess no belief in the supernatural and thus they screen
immigrants for rational thought and anti-religious beliefs. So far
so good. Everyone should have the right to freedom of association.

Right away this group of people will be targeted for missionary work
by the religous. Do you think infiltration will begin immediately or
after a generation or so? Clandestine faith meetings, secret cells,
leading to a religous underground.

The crux of the problem for me is that while a group should have the
right to be self-selecting, what happens to those who are born into
the group and develop "delusional thoughts" on religion. I'm not
intending to be insulting to the religionists on the list, I'm just
painting a picture of what such a philosphical persepctive may look
like to the new *culture.*

What is to be done? How does a society reconcile individual freedoms
with collective identity? Sure, the offending religionists could be
banished to a religous Habitat but aren't they as much a citizen of
the Habitat, having been born and raised there.

Would Amnesty International target the Habitat for oppression of
religous belief and violations of Human Rights?

Keep in mind that for the settlers who formed the Habitat, belief in
gods is akin to others believing in the tooth fairy, or santa. How
seriously do we take people who profess a deep and abiding belief in
the existence of the tooth fairy? We don't think of them as *normal*
and we may try to help them in some fashion. This may be the view in
the Habitat. Imagine the outcry if they tried to re-educate the
religionists. From their perspective it may be the sensible thing to
do, but from our perspective if is tantamount to a crime against the
indiviudal and violates a fundamental human right.

Is it even possible to *create* distinct societies any longer or
does cultural pollution hold sway over the entire human species. How
successful is French or Italian cinema against the onslaught of
American Pop Culture?

Keep in mind I'm not referring to taking existing cultures and
transplanting them into orbit. There's really no experiment there.
We're talking about creating something new.

Will all these societal experiments devolve into a common amalgam
over a few generations? If not, how stringent can the measures be
that are undertaken to maintain cultural purity?

Will these new societies have to rebalance the equation between
individual rights and collective rights towards the latter? If so,
then isn't this the death knell for orbital libertarian societies
because the nature of societal evolution will be towards
homogenzation and societal control. If the former, then how doesn't
the very concept of *distinct society* become a moot point?

Any thoughts?

TangoMan

As far as children are concerned, that type of thing is happening right now
on Earth, and has been for a very long time. Take the any religious group
whose members procreate, and there it is. Excommunication, whether in name
or principal, is commonplace. And this is not just with religious groups,
but any group at all. Vary your behavior enough and witness this in action.
So, what to do?

I would venture to say that any group that attempts to isolate itself in
such a manner as you described will inevitably become diluted enough to be
considered just another facet of the parent culture. Influx of ideas, birth
of 'deviants', and what have you, are not controlable in survivable ways.

In addition, I would suspect that wholely new cultures should develop
amongst those that live in space, due to the radically different
requirements and demands that such lively would entail. This would occur
over generations, no doubt, and is probably largely unpredictable as well.
Shouldn't that deconstruct any attempts at exclusionary societies, as well?

In the near term, I think that it would be well nigh impossible to put
together a group of people with all the talents, education, physical
ability, beliefs and, of course, willingness, in a large enough group to
enable the lauch of such an endeavor. Therefore, in my opinion, the point is
moot!

Val