You guys seem pretty knowledgeable. Perhaps you can help me with some
questions.

What is the smallest rocket that can put itself in orbit?
What is the cheapest way to get a one ton satellite into orbit?
Are we (our group) capable of doing, or having either done?
In a way we could produce revenue to expand the business?

What could we design that, when placed into an orbit, could
produce all of us income with which we could continue the process? I say
all of us because there are 264 members and I imagine that that almost
all are adults. Could we do a mini-SPS? There are a few private
companies that lift satellites into orbit. I do not know what they
charge, it isn't cheap I'm sure, but do-able if we could make something
worth putting up.

What I am suggesting is co-op or corporation-like. I do not know
the inner workings of a corporation other than they issue stock, which
people can buy. We would need to have finite achievable goals. We would
need a president guy and treasurer and all that. Everyone could pitch in
a nickel a month and then we'd have $13.20. Now that doesn't sound like
much because it isn't.

My booster club for my unit has a president, vice president,
secretary, and treasurer. You know what they do? Throw a Christmas party
every year. That's all. All year long they fundraise and plan. Our goal
is more important than a party. Yet, we do not have these posts filled?
Nor does a nickel roll free from our wallet every month.

Why? Well this is a fun question? No party. I heard once that a
point in all directions is no point at all. We all have good idea some
have some really great ones. Do any of us have four tons of rocket
propellant in their garage? That's bad because someone should. A few of
us do and we'd have something. Enough and we could put our own junk in
orbit. Then, we have a party.

Perhaps, in my youth, I figure that anything can be done through
the sheer determination of those involved in it. One person cannot pull
down a polar bear, but 90 crazed people with bare hands can send a herd
into a panic. The number of people involved may determine the time it
takes to do it, but not as to whether it gets done. I have been told
that if you're going to do something, put the oar in the water.
Essentially get moving, and then figure out which way you want to go. I
know this doesn't apply to spaceflight, but bear with me.

Not as to leave you all hanging in the breeze, someone needs to
become head cheese here. Perhaps one is already amongst us. Some of us
send some really snazzy emails into the fray (Thor and Paul) and seem to
have the plans. There are engineers in here too, I am sure. We have the
talent in here. We just need to get the posts filled, draw up some plans
(rough and the ones in CAD), pass the collection plate (several times if
need be). See if we can't manifest our own destiny.

> ... However, what a millionnaire can do,
> can also be done by a large enough body of people all contributing a
> few dollars-worth each, and they will all have the satisfaction of
> having taken part, and may even benefit from it.
> ...
> I intended Spacefleet to be a worldwide
> effort, to cut across all political, national and ethnic divisions.
> If you agree with all this, then please go to the Spacefleet site and
> make yourself, your hopes and your ideas known.

It seems to me on first reading you essentially imply you want
donations; if this is true, under what license are you putting any
copyrights, patents that your venture produces?

Is the another proprietary project intented to be subsidized with
charitable dollars that could otherwise go to totally free works that
the space community can really build on?

--Paul Fernhout

> What is the smallest rocket that can put itself in
> orbit?
Totally dependent on mass of payload, orbital
inclination and height

> What is the cheapest way to get a one ton satellite
> into orbit?
see previous answer.
A point here people just getting into this tend to
forget, you cannot just buy a rocket and launch it
anywhere and expect it to go wherever. Alot depends
on the latitude of the launch facility and the
direction you launch (there is a reason most all polar
orbitting satellites are launched from california and
alaska in the US). I highly recommend learning the
fnudamentals of orbital mechanics. NASA has a great
education website for this at:
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/toc.asp?s=Orbital%20Mechanics

A good reference to have to answer your questions is
Gunter's Space Page:
http://www.skyrocket.de/space/index2.htm
The FAA also has alot of information at
http://ast.faa.gov/
The department of commerce also puts out a great
summary of launch costs. Astronautix is also a great
online reference. Basically, search on google for the
info you want and you will find tons of sources.

> Are we (our group) capable of doing, or having
> either done?
This is a discussion list only on topics related to
what SSI is interested. To see a list of
accomplishments of SSI, please refer to their web
page: http://www.ssi.org/

Ryan Z

Rah rah Rhee, kick 'im in the knee...
Rah rah rasp, kick 'im in the ... other knee.

Way to go Ryan. Give him some educational links and send him
packing. We don't need no fricken dreamers around here. Ted, go
educate yourself, then you'll see that you are gravely mistaken.
There are so many ways that this can't be done.

I remember back when I dreamed about space travel. Then, I started
reading space newsgroups and mailing lists like this one. Boy was I
naive to actually think that we could DO this. I'm glad guys like
you helped set me straight. Now, I too can sit back and smugly laugh
at those who with youthful exuberance want to fly.

Nice work.

> please refer to their web page: http://www.ssi.org/
>
> Ryan Z

=====
People are feeling better! Asthma, Fibromyalgia, Lack of Energy, and much more are disappearing. And, the best part is that there's money to be made while helping yourself and others feel better! If you're feeling lousy and broke, contact me and I'll introduce you to an amazing product.

Please everyone skip this response as it is only in
rebutal to Mr Gidman's uncalled for remarks.

> Rah rah Rhee, kick 'im in the knee...
> Rah rah rasp, kick 'im in the ... other knee.
>
> Way to go Ryan. Give him some educational links and
> send him
> packing. We don't need no fricken dreamers around
> here. Ted, go
> educate yourself, then you'll see that you are
> gravely mistaken.
> There are so many ways that this can't be done.
>
> I remember back when I dreamed about space travel.
> Then, I started
> reading space newsgroups and mailing lists like this
> one. Boy was I
> naive to actually think that we could DO this. I'm
> glad guys like
> you helped set me straight. Now, I too can sit back
> and smugly laugh
> at those who with youthful exuberance want to fly.
>
> Nice work.
>
I'm so sorry, should I just hold your hand for you and
tell you everything is okay, we'll do it all for you.
As with any business/enterprise/project, it is good to
be informed. If you think that by posting links to
people to actually learn something themselves instead
of just sitting there and being told what to think is
a bad thing, then I am sorry for you.

It reminds me alot of people who program who program
using microsoft visual basic. They get so use to
microsoft holding their hands and guiding them that
they soon forget how to solve solutions on their own
w/o using ms products. These people are then stuck
with only being able to solve all solutions only by
using microsft tools cause that is all they know how
to use anymore. Nevermind the fact that there are a
thousand better ways to do it that are much cheaper
and much more innovative. They instead wish to stick
with only that comfort zone that microsoft has given
them.

So I am sorry if you feel that by having people go out
and educate themselves squelches their dreams. I tend
to think that those out there who actually educate
themselves beyond just watching anime (which I do
watch also) and reading popular science's latest
article tend to come up with better, more informed
ideas that actually make sense and are workable.

Yeah its the hard way out, but I think that if the
original poster who I responded to went and spent a
few weeks educating himself about orbital mechanics,
he would be able to adapt what he had learned to his
initial thoughts and come out with something more
coherent, fleshed out and implementable.

As far as DOing something, some of us actually are
already DOING things instead of just talking. Beyond
my everyday job in the space manufacturing industry, I
work with youth educating them on space and science in
general and have donated alot of my time to
volunteering my time to various space outreach
programs. So don't even give me any of the high and
mighty crap. For the most part, alot of people on
this list are very intelligent people who actually
want to learn something and share their knowledge. I
am sorry if that offends you.

I apologize to the rest of the group for this
response.

Ryan Z