Let's Play Politics
Okay, so none of you are willing to do much to help out with my idea of getting environmental groups involved in promoting space-based energy sources. How about this: our President (and I use the term with regret) has established this damn fool goal of a Mars landing. Perhaps the candidates in the next Presidential election--who, as we know, will start coming out of the woodwork and campaigning as early as later this year--could be persuaded that a different space strategy would pay more dividends for the planet we live on.
I, at least, would like to try. In order to do so, I will need help from you technical brains in assembling a persuasive case. Let's start with the following: does anyone have a reasonable ballpark estimate of what the Mars trip will cost? And over how many years? What is the likely cost, and the likely time frame, if our government were to commit to developing space-based solar energy satellites? Could the latter be substituted for the former?
Something tells me that, if the numbers look good, John Edwards or Barack Obama or whoever else emerges in the Democratic race might be willing to listen. I have good contacts in the political world, and would be happy to be the face-to-face contact, but I will need help in getting to that point. Any takers?
--Mark

> Okay, so none of you are willing to do much to help out with my idea
> of getting environmental groups involved in promoting space-based
> energy sources.

Okay, so none of you are willing to do much to help out with my idea of getting environmental groups involved in promoting space-based energy sources. How about this: our President (and I use the term with regret) has established this damn fool goal of a Mars landing. Perhaps the candidates in the next Presidential election--who, as we know, will start coming out of the woodwork and campaigning as early as later this year--could be persuaded that a different space strategy would pay more dividends for the planet we live on.
I, at least, would like to try. In order to do so, I will need help from you technical brains in assembling a persuasive case. Let's start with the following: does anyone have a reasonable ballpark estimate of what the Mars trip will cost? And over how many years? What is the likely cost, and the likely time frame, if our government were to commit to developing space-based solar energy satellites? Could the latter be substituted for the former?
Something tells me that, if the numbers look good, John Edwards or Barack Obama or whoever else emerges in the Democratic race might be willing to listen. I have good contacts in the political world, and would be happy to be the face-to-face contact, but I will need help in getting to that point. Any takers?
--Mark

The world is much more complicated than you want. I have spent years
trying to figure out how to motivate our local congressman, Joe Burton,
Chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. It has become
obvious that the pain level isn't high enough yet to get and hold a
politicians interest. A politician's main concern is financing his next
election. Secondary is to not do anything dumb enough for his opponent
in the next election to use as a weapon. Unless you have something to
offer in these two areas their amount of interest is zero. Gore went
out on a limb to push Earth observation and it became a campaign issue
against him. Given that history you're unlikely to see any politician
endorse anything not on the NASA agenda.

Regards, Mike Combs

The world is much more complicated than you want. I have spent years
trying to figure out how to motivate our local congressman, Joe Burton,
Chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. It has become
obvious that the pain level isn't high enough yet to get and hold a
politicians interest. A politician's main concern is financing his next
election. Secondary is to not do anything dumb enough for his opponent
in the next election to use as a weapon. Unless you have something to
offer in these two areas their amount of interest is zero. Gore went
out on a limb to push Earth observation and it became a campaign issue
against him. Given that history you're unlikely to see any politician
endorse anything not on the NASA agenda.

Mike, why is it everyone seems to want to wait until
things are "easier"? Climbing a 4000 mile tall
mountain is never going to be easy but it is possible
now and has been for 30 years. I guess we just need to
be "hungry" enough to go out and do what needs to be
done. Maybe it will be Asia that ends up having the
necessary drive to succeed in developing the High
Frontier. I wonder if the leaders of China and India
have read O'Niells book? Maybe I'll just send them a
couple of copies,,,and learn to speak Chinese.

So, Mark, what kind of help are you seeking? I'm a
generalist with great interest in everything science
oriented. My interest in space colonies goes back 40
years and in SPSs to Jerry O'Niells writings.
If you can dedfine what you need I might be able to
help,,,

So, Mark, what kind of help are you seeking? I'm a
generalist with great interest in everything science
oriented. My interest in space colonies goes back 40
years and in SPSs to Jerry O'Niells writings.
If you can dedfine what you need I might be able to
help,,,

things are "easier"? Climbing a 4000 mile tall
mountain is never going to be easy but it is possible
now and has been for 30 years. I guess we just need to
be "hungry" enough to go out and do what needs to be
done. Maybe it will be Asia that ends up having the
necessary drive to succeed in developing the High
Frontier. I wonder if the leaders of China and India
have read O'Niells book? Maybe I'll just send them a
couple of copies,,,and learn to speak Chinese. Nobody would be more delighted than I if we were to once again get goaded into rapid advance by another superpower nosing ahead of us. But I always caution people who look to the Chinese for this. It's important to remember that they are now were weessentially were back in the days of Mercury. Some might try to argue that they have leapfrogged straight from Mercury to Gemini in two flights, but only in crew size, not in on-orbit capability. Given their very low flight rate, I wouldn't see the Chinesecoming to an Apollo level anytime soon.

> I wonder if the leaders of China and India have read O'Niells book?

They don't necessarily have to. They could purchase the launch capabilty from
others.

> Given their very low flight rate, I
> wouldn't see the Chinese coming to an Apollo level anytime soon. They don't necessarily have to. They could purchase the launch capabilty from
others. Although their hardware borrows much conceptually from the Russian Soyuz, the Chinese take great pride in the fact that this is Chinese-manufactured hardware. I've heard it argued that the main reason the Chinese want a manned space program is because they feel it gives them more technological prestige, and that this has a direct effect on world markets seeing China as a viable source of high-tech goods. In other words, their space program helps their bottom line.
I think too many people are seeing what they want to see: China vitally interested in the inhabitation and economic development of the moon for its own sake. The reality may be that even if the Chinese are serious about their stated interest in the moon, their interest in going there may be no different from America's in the 60's.Stated simply:to prove that they can (to impress upon the world their state of technological capability). We had an interest in that more for political reasons, while the Chinese today might well have more economic reasons. But either way, there'd be little difference in the long-term outcome. That's to say: We haveflags and footprints, we'veproved that we can, so why continue?

Mark,

Mark,

OK Mark, I'll sit down and write up some estimates. It
will take me a few days, in between work and play. I
hope that every error I make is caught and corrected
by our SSI group. This is Not a singular undertaking,
criticism IS welcome, as long as it adds to the
effort.

Ah yes, like bats, we're really into the big balls,
small brains syndrome. Something as vague as species
survival doesn't translate well into the immediacy of
the competitive/reproductive urge. Perhaps we could
make survival planning a game, like, "He who succeeds
in building the first SPS gets all the women,,,". That
kind of reward system just might work,,,

Regards,
Mike Combs

Bless you! I'm getting seriously tired of the "we can't do anything" contingent. The way I see it, if I am going to seek a meeting with a Presidential candidate, senator, etc., I need to have a presentation ready which contains facts and figures: what the Mars Landing program is estimated to cost, a comparison of what a program to assemble/launch solar power satellites would cost, and a realistic projection of how long it would take. If we can make a persuasive case that the government's/taxpayers' money would be much better spent on the latter, it might make a very attractive campaign issue for a Democrat who wants to run against the Bush Administration's record and proposals. I have a pretty good general sense for why this is desirable, but I don't have the hard data needed to support a proposed course of action. Is this something you could help with? And am I totally off-base in thinking that the money it will take to get to Mars would pay for a pretty good chunk of future non-fossil fuel energy independence?

OK Mark, I'll sit down and write up some estimates. It
will take me a few days, in between work and play. I
hope that every error I make is caught and corrected
by our SSI group. This is Not a singular undertaking,
criticism IS welcome, as long as it adds to the
effort.

Message

> Okay, so none of you are willing to do much to help out with my idea of
> getting environmental groups involved in promoting space-based energy
> sources. How about this: our President (and I use the term with regret)
> has established this damn fool goal of a Mars landing. Perhaps the
> candidates in the next Presidential election--who, as we know, will
> start coming out of the woodwork and campaigning as early as later this
> year--could be persuaded that a different space strategy would pay more
> dividends for the planet we live on.
>
> I, at least, would like to try. In order to do so, I will need help
> from you technical brains in assembling a persuasive case.

Quoting Brian Dunbar brian.dunbar@...

Environmentalists are an excellent market for serious backers, and they're willing to work hard and raise the flags of alert so desparately needed.

Since O'Niell's plan calls for habitats as well as powersats to be constructed from lunar material, I wonder if the idea of establishing a moon base might be of some economic and environmental benefit in the long run after all, assuming of course, that powersats are built some day.