Many visionaries have designed and are still designing Moon bases and space stations around Earth, but, as is usual in many such presentations, ignore the basics of physics, engineering and specific conditions, often in ignorance, or with a wishful "no problem" attitude. Since the Apollo moon landings, we know quite a bit more about the conditions of the Moon's surface, but the artist-designers do not take these into account and are still in the science fiction phase, or rather, fiction only. As the engineer in electrics, mechanics and energy conversion systems that I am, I make in this e-book a more realistic analysis of what is possible and develop a program that can lead to establish the first bases and settlements on the Moon, showing designs of such structures and transport systems, with all the functions needed to live there and as can be done with today's technology. This is neither Science yet, nor is it Science Fiction. This is Science Vision instead, the vision of what is, or may be possible within known laws of physics and today's technology, but is yet to be done. You can download the first chapter FOR FREE here: http://www.draaisma.net/space-tourism/moon_base_landing.php
> Many visionaries have designed and are still designing Moon bases and
> space stations around Earth, but, as is usual in many such
> presentations,
> ignore the basics of physics, engineering and specific conditions,
> often in ignorance, or with a wishful "no problem" attitude. Since
> the Apollo moon
> landings, we know quite a bit more about the conditions of the
> Moon's surface, but the artist-designers do not take these into
> account and are still in
> the science fiction phase, or rather, fiction only.
Peter Eckhart, for example? This has not only the basics but the
details of the physics, engineering, and specific conditions, including
data from Apollo and later missions, all taken into account in the
specific plans. And that's just the first example I happened to spot
on my shelf; I'm sure there are others.
> As the engineer in electrics, mechanics and energy conversion
> systems that I am... You can
> download the first chapter FOR FREE here:
> http://www.draaisma.net/space-tourism/moon_base_landing.php
Sounds to me like you're just trying to make a quick buck.
If you really are sincere, then you should not start by disparaging all
the distinguished engineers and scientists that have come before you,
and stop trying to puff yourself up as well. If tearing down others
feels necessary, then it's probably because your work can't stand up
fro itself.
Downloading your first sample chapter, I see that this is exactly the
case. On the very first page, you claim that walking on the Moon is
impossible!
Oh dear... slightly further, you write: "actually, I personally suspect
that studio-videos were shown as the 'real thing', because the latter
wasn't much to show a miscalculation on Moon conditions. Therefore
also no moon expeditions later on ye can't move around there..."
So you're just another loony Moon-conspiracy nutjob. Please go away.
Joe Strout -- joe@...
Joe: I note that China is building a nuc. powered
lunar rover for launch in 2012. Guess they haven't
heard you can't walk on the moon. I expect if we want
to visit that pleasant orb, we should start learning
Chinese. Seems like Firefly/Serenity is going to be
closer to the reality of space society than our wild
west template. Ah well, maybe Joss Whedon is a time
traveler,,,
>
> > Many visionaries have designed and are still
> designing Moon bases and
> > space stations around Earth, but, as is usual in
> many such
> > presentations,
> > ignore the basics of physics, engineering and
> specific conditions,
> > often in ignorance, or with a wishful "no problem"
> attitude. Since
> > the Apollo moon
> > landings, we know quite a bit more about the
> conditions of the
> > Moon's surface, but the artist-designers do not
> take these into
> > account and are still in
> > the science fiction phase, or rather, fiction
> only.
>
> I don't see that at all. Have you read "The Lunar
> Base Handbook" by
> Peter Eckhart, for example? This has not only the
> basics but the
> details of the physics, engineering, and specific
> conditions, including
> data from Apollo and later missions, all taken into
> account in the
> specific plans. And that's just the first example I
> happened to spot
> on my shelf; I'm sure there are others.
>
> > As the engineer in electrics, mechanics and energy
> conversion
> > systems that I am... You can
> > download the first chapter FOR FREE here:
> >
http://www.draaisma.net/space-tourism/moon_base_landing.php
Whatever the in your view low quality of my views about settlements
on the Moon, your reaction doesn't show much quality either - you
only shout at me. If you would have any substantional arguments
against my views, please come again. If not, YOU go away and I stay!
> > Many visionaries have designed and are still designing Moon bases
and
> > space stations around Earth, but, as is usual in many such
> > presentations,
> > ignore the basics of physics, engineering and specific conditions,
> > often in ignorance, or with a wishful "no problem" attitude. Since
> > the Apollo moon
> > landings, we know quite a bit more about the conditions of the
> > Moon's surface, but the artist-designers do not take these into
> > account and are still in
> > the science fiction phase, or rather, fiction only.
>
> I don't see that at all. Have you read "The Lunar Base Handbook" by
> Peter Eckhart, for example? This has not only the basics but the
> details of the physics, engineering, and specific conditions,
including
> data from Apollo and later missions, all taken into account in the
> specific plans. And that's just the first example I happened to
spot
> on my shelf; I'm sure there are others.
>
> > As the engineer in electrics, mechanics and energy conversion
> > systems that I am... You can
> > download the first chapter FOR FREE here:
> > http://www.draaisma.net/space-tourism/moon_base_landing.php
>
> Sounds to me like you're just trying to make a quick buck.
>
> If you really are sincere, then you should not start by disparaging
all
> the distinguished engineers and scientists that have come before
you,
> and stop trying to puff yourself up as well. If tearing down others
> feels necessary, then it's probably because your work can't stand up
> fro itself.
>
> Downloading your first sample chapter, I see that this is exactly
the
> case. On the very first page, you claim that walking on the Moon is
> impossible!
>
> Oh dear... slightly further, you write: "actually, I personally
suspect
> that studio-videos were shown as the 'real thing', because the
latter
> wasn't much to show " a miscalculation on Moon conditions.
Therefore
> also no moon expeditions later on " ye can't move around there..."
>
> So you're just another loony Moon-conspiracy nutjob. Please go
away.
In all fairness, Joe, if he's giving it away he can't
be making a quick buck.
that man never actually walked on the moon (and drove
around, totalling several kilometers), and that it is
in fact impossible to do so, then you're not going to
find much support around here. Yes, lunar regolith
(not "rigolith") is fine and powdery, but it is pretty
tightly packed and there is nowhere for it to go
laterally. If you step on it, you won't simply sink
out of sight. This was in fact a big concern prior to
Apollo 11, but after the Eagle landed and Aldrin and
Armstrong walked around that concern evaporated.
Here's an experiment you can try. Get yourself a few
hundred kilograms of flour. Put it in a container
such that the flour is 30 or 40 centimeters deep, and
level on the surface. Lay a heavy weight on top,
across the entire surface (perhaps put a sheet of
plywood over top in the shape of your container, and
then pile bags of flour or big rocks or something on
top of that) to compress it, then expose your
compressed flour surface. Then, step on it. If you
don't give that flour anywhere to go laterally (ie the
walls hold it in), then the only place for it to go is
down, compressing it. So, instead of sinking to the
bottom of your container, your feet might compress it
by a couple of centimeters and then stop. Although
lunar regolith is very fine, it will react to your
weight just like the flour.
Bear in mind that there are huge boulders on the
surface of the moon. If those boulders haven't sunk
out of sight over the course of several millenia, then
your astronauts won't sink out of sight over the
course of a few seconds of standing in one spot.
Blatant whoppers like that are enough to keep serious
people from reading your proposal any further. If you
really want to get things done on the moon, then
you're going to have to abandon conspiracy theories
about Apollo.
Ed
> Whatever the in your view low quality of my views
> about settlements
> on the Moon, your reaction doesn't show much quality
> either - you
> only shout at me. If you would have any
> substantional arguments
> against my views, please come again. If not, YOU go
> away and I stay!
>
> > > Many visionaries have designed and are still
> designing Moon bases
> and
> > > space stations around Earth, but, as is usual in
> many such
> > > presentations,
> > > ignore the basics of physics, engineering and
> specific conditions,
> > > often in ignorance, or with a wishful "no
> problem" attitude. Since
> > > the Apollo moon
> > > landings, we know quite a bit more about the
> conditions of the
> > > Moon's surface, but the artist-designers do not
> take these into
> > > account and are still in
> > > the science fiction phase, or rather, fiction
> only.
> >
> > I don't see that at all. Have you read "The Lunar
> Base Handbook" by
> > Peter Eckhart, for example? This has not only the
> basics but the
> > details of the physics, engineering, and specific
> conditions,
> including
> > data from Apollo and later missions, all taken
> into account in the
> > specific plans. And that's just the first example
> I happened to
> spot
> > on my shelf; I'm sure there are others.
> >
> > > As the engineer in electrics, mechanics and
> energy conversion
> > > systems that I am... You can
> > > download the first chapter FOR FREE here:
> > >
http://www.draaisma.net/space-tourism/moon_base_landing.php
> In all fairness, Joe, if he's giving it away he can't
> be making a quick buck.
says he'll charge for the rest. (Or so I read when I went to the site
a couple days ago.)
> Blatant whoppers like that are enough to keep serious
> people from reading your proposal any further. If you
> really want to get things done on the moon, then
> you're going to have to abandon conspiracy theories
> about Apollo.
Ed, your patience is an inspiration. I used to have patience like
that, but over the years it seems to have been all used up. But maybe
I'll find some more one day.
Best,
- Joe
Joe Strout -- joe@...
> Whatever the in your view low quality of my views about settlements
> on the Moon, your reaction doesn't show much quality either - you
> only shout at me. If you would have any substantional arguments
> against my views, please come again. If not, YOU go away and I stay!
Joewas in fact helpful enough to direct you to a reference that, if you were to read, would help straighten you out on the several serious errors you're making in your writings. The very knowledgeable folks on this maillist are doing you a favor by giving you good advice which you would be well-advised to take to heart.
Mike Combs
List Moderator
Those of you who may have read the first chapter about Moon settlements, may want to read the revised version, added with one more page, where I describe a possible energy sytem that could be used on the Moon, using rigolith as a fuel. I also made some minor additions to the text, as to the temperature control problems of systems and habitats. I would like to hear your views on this new idea:
http://www.draaisma.net/space-tourism/moon_base_landing.php
> Those of you who may have read the first chapter about Moon
> settlements, may want to read the revised version, added with one
> more page, where I describe a possible energy sytem that could be
> used on the Moon, using rigolith as a fuel.
already (now three times -- though I'm losing hope that you have any
willingness to learn).
> I also made some minor additions to the text, as to the temperature
> control problems of systems and habitats.
I see you're still claiming (incorrectly) that all other writers on the
subject ignore physics, engineering, and lunar conditions. A quick
look at the PDF shows you're still making other ridiculous claims as
well, such as that walking on the lunar surface is impossible.
Ignorance is curable, but only if you have a willingness to learn. You
have demonstrated only the opposite.
Joe Strout -- joe@...