OrbHab>SSI-List

Re: A simple cuestion about Island 3
# 22099 byJuan Polaino on Oct. 19, 2008, 12:39 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

Island 3 is a cylinder of 3 or 6 Km radius that spin enought to produce
a centrifugal force similar a G: 9'8 m/s
The Sun Light enter through the windows, from mirrors located in a
structure tilted about 30 degrees, as long as the cylinder.

My question is:
How strong is the centrifugal force in the extreme of the mirrors?.
The radius of spin is much more than the radius of cylinder. Can the
mirrors suport his own weight?

# 22100 byJoe Strout on Oct. 19, 2008, 4 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

> Island 3 is a cylinder of 3 or 6 Km radius that spin enought to
> produce
> a centrifugal force similar a G: 9'8 m/s
> The Sun Light enter through the windows, from mirrors located in a
> structure tilted about 30 degrees, as long as the cylinder.
>
> My question is:
> How strong is the centrifugal force in the extreme of the mirrors?.
>

Zero. The mirrors don't spin.

Best,
- Joe

# 22101 byVladimir Vasquez on Oct. 19, 2008, 5:05 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

But if the mirror dont spin how is that they track the windows?

revisa mi Blog!: http://lacuevadellobo.blogspot.com/

# 22102 byJoe Strout on Oct. 19, 2008, 5:12 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

> But if the mirror dont spin how is that they track the windows?

Oops, sorry, I was thinking of a different design. You're right, in
the Island 3 design the mirrors would have to spin with the habitat,
and would experience a force much greater than 1 G.

Best,
- Joe

# 22103 byVladimir Vasquez on Oct. 19, 2008, 5:17 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

The recent designs aims to artificial ilumination, I m wrong?
revisa mi Blog!: http://lacuevadellobo.blogspot.com/

# 22104 byJoe Strout on Oct. 19, 2008, 6:37 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

> The recent designs aims to artificial ilumination, I m wrong?

That is a subject of some controversy around here. I'm a proponent of
artificial illumination -- lights (especially OLED technology, for
example) have gotten substantially more efficient than in the days of
O'Neill, and they can substantially reduce the amount of waste heat
you have to get rid of, especially in agricultural areas. To me,
designing your whole habitat around giant windows or convoluted light
paths is like using long rotary cranks to get rotational motion from
the power plant to (say) your washing machine, just to avoid
converting from rotation to electricity and back to rotation.

But others have a different view (and can probably best represent that
view themselves).

Best,
- Joe

Joe Strout
joe@...

Words of wisdom from Helen Philpot:
http://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/2008/10/07/maverick-my-ass/>

# 22105 byCombs, Mike on Oct. 20, 2008, 8:28 a.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

>
> > But if the mirror dont spin how is that they track the windows?
>
> Oops, sorry, I was thinking of a different design. You're right, in
> the Island 3 design the mirrors would have to spin with the habitat,
> and would experience a force much greater than 1 G.
Some critic in Whole Earth Catalog's "Space Colonies" makes the point that if Island 3's mirrors sag even slightly, they're useless as planar mirrors. For that reason, I don't put much faith in space habitat designs where the mirrors rotate with the habitat. I have no doubt that cylinders at the scale of Island 3 will be built someday, but will be surprised if it's with the mirror configuration of the existing design. And as Joe reminds us, there are habitat designs where the mirrors don't rotate with the habitat. This design might work with cylinders at the diameter, if not the length, of Island 3: http://ssi.org/assets/images/Ch06p086.gif http://ssi.org/assets/images/Ch06p088.gif

Regards,
Mike Combs

# 22106 byGARY ANSORGE on Oct. 20, 2008, 1:02 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

Free floating solar collectors need only convert the incoming radiation to electricity, then transfer it to the colony via micro waves. With no physical connection, the mirrors can go their own way, independent of the colony.

GAry 7

# 22107 byCombs, Mike on Oct. 20, 2008, 1:26 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

> Free floating solar collectors need only convert the incoming radiation to electricity, > then transfer it to the colony via micro waves. With no physical connection, the > mirrors can go their own way, independent of the colony.

I really hate the idea of the 5-step conversion losses of that approach, since light is what we're starting out with, and light is what we want in the end. Earth will receive its space power via microwave, but that's because there's no better option in that case. I think one of the advantages of living in space will be the ability to harness the power of the sun continuously by simply running a cable to a solar panel outside the shadow of the Earth.

Regards,
Mike Combs

# 22108 byGARY ANSORGE on Oct. 21, 2008, 12:13 a.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

Yes, but we still end up with a mechanical connection to a rotating body and that introduces drag on the mirror for which we must correct. Perhaps if we can use the earth mag field inductance or a massive tether to maintain the mirror orientation, that would work. ( By massive I don't necessarily mean large,,,)

GAry 7

# 22109 byCombs, Mike on Oct. 21, 2008, 8:27 a.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

> Yes, but we still end up with a mechanical connection to a rotating > body and that introduces drag on the mirror for which we must correct. True, but with reasonably well designed bearings, those forces would be relatively small. Between the technical challenges of a small electric motor making up frictional losses, and keeping mirrors miles across and under multiple G loads of centrifugal force from sagging even slightly anywhere across their surfaces, the former is the easier challenge.

Regards,
Mike Combs