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Re: Why Not Space?
# 22691 bymarkreiff on Oct. 18, 2011, 10:48 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

FYI,

What we are up against.

"Why Not Space?"
Do the Math
Using physics and estimation to assess energy, growth
optionsby Tom Murphy
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/10/why-not-space

: Ask a random sampling of people if they think we will have
: colonized space in 500 years, and I expect it will be a while
: before you run into someone who says it's unlikely. Our migration
: from this planet is a seductive vision of the future that has been
: given almost tangible reality by our entertainment industry. We are
: attracted to the narrative that our primitive progenitors crawled
: out of the ocean, just as we'll crawl off our home planet (en
: masse) some day.

: I'm not going to claim that this vision is false: how could I know
: that? But I will point out a few of the unappreciated difficulties
: with this view. The subtext is that space fantasies can prevent us
: from tackling mundane problems whose denial could result in a
: backward slide. When driving, fixing your gaze on the gleaming
: horizon is likely to result in your crashing into a stopped car
: ahead of you, so that your car is no longer capable of reaching the
: promised land ahead. We have to pay attention to the stupid stuff
: right in front of us, as it might well stand between us and a smart
: future.

(continued at link above)

Mark Reiff

# 22692 bysailor.barsoom on Oct. 29, 2011, 11:23 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

> i am appalled by the results of that college student
> questionnaire. shows how ignorant the graduates must
> be. These are the people that are running the country
> or their earlier equivalent. Not to mention the
> corruption and unchastity and rule breaking as an end
> in itself college culture nationwide for generations
> now. no wonder things are such a mess.

I'm not so much appalled as suspicious. We're being
asked to believe that 89% of beginning college physics
students don't know that we quit going to the Moon
after Apollo. Really?

I can't prove that Tom Murphy is making it up, but I do
keep in mind that every generation is utterly convinced
that the one after it is going to Hell in a poorly-made
hand-basket, that teens and early-twenties are never
quite as screwed up as older people insist on
believing, and that older people seem willing to
believe ANYTHING about the young (remember when
"rainbow parties" were supposed to be all the rage
among the middle school set? Well it wasn't true).

Basically this article is saying that space is big and
that we haven't gotten as far as predictions in the 50s
would have us think. Well, we already knew that.

# 22693 byJohn Personette on Oct. 30, 2011, 2:36 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

I teach college freshmen and I tend to believe that they do no know much about the space program. In fact, many of my students do not know how to pick a city on four different continents for a climate project. Most of these will not be physics majors-but-I bet if you asked them when we first got to the moon ---they would have noclue-its that bad!

John Personette
Ill. Valley Comm. College

# 22694 bysailor.barsoom on Oct. 30, 2011, 9:30 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

Please don't anybody get mad at me for this, but
anecdotes from older professors about how people aren't as
smart today as they used to be aren't valuable. Again,
every generation says that. One would think that the
human race achieved its height of moral and intellectual
grandeur about the time of Lucy the Australopithecus, and
it's been all downhill ever since. I can't say that your
friend's students *haven't* declined over time; he may
have just had a string of bad students. But there's no
way to verify what his observations, even if unclouded by
nostalgia, mean for the population at large.

I can well believe that if he, or you, or I asked some
first year college students cold, "In what year did human
beings first land on the Moon, and in what year was the
most recent manned Lunar voyage," that a significant
percentage would get it wrong. But we are being asked to
believe more than that. We are being asked to believe
that a significant fraction of Murphy's first year physics
students believe that we are *still* making manned Lunar
voyages, in the Space Shuttle, even though:

1) these voyages never make the news,

2) the Shuttle is a winged vehicle which makes unpowered
landings,

3) the Moon is airless,

4) these students, though obviously not space buffs (nor,
it would appear, history buffs) do have enough interest in
science to sign up for a first year physics course.

Again, there's no way for me to know for sure that it
*didn't happen,* but I find it a little hard to swallow,
and I utterly cannot believe that this is typical. If
this did happen the way Prof. Murphy described it, he has
an unusually-confused group of students this year. He
should avoid playing the lottery; luck is not with him.

My next post will be about rainbow parties. Will contain
graphic language, so unless you are a middle-school
student, reader discretion is advised.

# 22695 bysailor.barsoom on Oct. 30, 2011, 10:31 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

I know that essay questions are more common in Europe
than in the United States, and I know that we keep
ranking behind many other countries in math and
science. It's disgusting and it's been that way for
a long time. Ross Perot talked about it in his
campaign. And earlier than that, when I was in high
school in the Eighties, it was being bandied about in
the news that some ungodly percentage of American high
school seniors couldn't find the United States of
America on an unlabeled world map. I don't know if
that was true, but that's what was on the evening news
and in the papers. So again, it's disgusting, but it
isn't new.

I'm starting to re-think my rainbow party post,
because I'm not sure how to write it without it coming
off as porn. Nothing against porn, but this isn't the
group for it. There are probably rainbow party porn
stories available online, if anybody wants it. I
haven't looked because, unless the author has changed
it all to heck and back, it's too boring to get
aroused over. I'll see what I can scratch up in Word,
and if it isn't too pornish, I'll go ahead and post it.
It really is an excellent example of the things mature,
wise adults will believe about teenagers (and even pre-
teens).

Yes, I'm sure that somebody somewhere has tried it,
after everybody from the evening news to Oprah Winfrey
flogged it to gullible parents, who then no doubt
quizzed their kids about it. Hey, where do you think
kids come up with this stuff? I'm just as sure that
nobody ever tried it twice.

# 22696 bysailor.barsoom on Nov. 1, 2011, 5:16 p.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

Well, that solves my concern about using graphic
language. So let's look at this in some detail:

These kids are going to be in school when the wild
weekend is over. Today's twelve year old girls don't
consider "slut" and "whore" to be compliments any
more than they did back in the day (whenever that
was). BTW, what's in it for the girls? No part of
their bodies are getting any rainbow treatment.
There's nothing in the legend to suggest that the
girls get so much as hugged. Also, they have to all
get together, a half-dozen or more girls and at least
two boys (or how can they compete), someplace where
they can have their little oral orgy without parents
finding out.

But let's suppose they manage to find girls willing,
and secure someplace private. OK, so the boys are
walking around with all the Good Lord blessed them
with swinging in the breeze, and the girls are
satisfied with unreciprocated oral service to same.
Now, the boys HAVE TO let it all hang out, because
tucking back in and pulling back out will smear the
rainbow. Come to think of it, the girls can't really
give a traditional blowjob, because any up-down
motion will smear the rainbow. The boys can't thrust
in-out-in-out, because that will smear the rainbow.
The boor fellow can't even jerk off, because that
will smear the rainbow. So the girls aren't really
"giving head," but rather taking turns briefly
pressing their lips around a penis which is not going
to be pumped in any way until the party is over, and
doing it with no hint of emotional, material, or
sexual recompense.

Which means you only need five girls, because most
people leave out indigo anyway, and because every boy
there is going to have such a case of blue balls that
the girl with the blue lipstick can stay home and not
be called a slut tomorrow in school.

Of course, it's possible, even likely, that a boy
that age is a hair-trigger and will reach orgasm as
soon as a girl touches him in any way "down there,"
but then he'd better get right back up again if he
wants to show off any rainbow. Indeed, some versions
of the legend indicate that each colored stripe
represents fellatio to completion. Now, I know that
the twelve-to-fifteen years old set is capable of
feats of sexual prowess which would leave an old man
like me gasping (if not dead), but fellated to orgasm
six times in one night? Actually, since they have to
get all this done before the parents come looking for
them, I should say six times in a an hour or so.

Sorry, not buying it. Yes, somebody's probably tried
it, and I hope their kids never find out how silly
Mom and Dad are. It's even possible some group of
tweens and teens has tried it, and even, I suppose,
possible (but not likely) that they managed to pull
it off. Doesn't change the fact that it was an urban
legend when it first hit the TV machine.

Besides, the urban legend wasn't that some somebody
somewhere had tried it, but that it was a common
occurrence. Like hell it was.

And I'm utterly sure that no nothing-in-it-for-me
girls or blue-balled boys ever tried it twice.

Rainbow parties are the fictional invention of
people with dirty minds who don't bother to think
things through. As porn it would be amusing if
unrealistic. As reality it fails the laugh test.

# 22697 byDoug Prentice on Nov. 2, 2011, 6:22 a.m.
Member since 2022-08-22

Sorry, the last post was sent incomplete, so here is the complete version...
I certainly find the idea of a lunar elevator/"beanstalk" intriguing and am in favour of anything that facilitates the establishment andsupport of a moon colony, through to the tipping point of economic and ecological sustainability, as i maintain that keeping all humanity's eggs in one ecological basket, while simultaneously kicking that basket tosmithereens, in the name of business as usual and short term economic gain, truly adds dimensions, colour, and compelling imagery to the definition of abysmal stupidity. By comparison, sustainable colonies on the moon, nearer asteroids, Lagrange points, other free orbits,or anywhere else that is possible, seem to me the greatest bargains of all time, at ANY price.
I would be delighted to hear any suggestions about how to improve science education for our youth, youth world-wide, and, indeed, for us all, as our chances of colonizing the High Frontier, and/or surviving the 21'st century, are inversely proportional to our collective stupidity, species-wide. Truly, we live in the age of Humanity's Final Examination, and, by(insert personal religion/philosophy/belief system here) let's make an effort at least comparable to the scale of effort which, right or wrong, was made in the second world war, to cooperate and pass TOGETHER! As Klaatu warned, in the original "The Day The Earth Stood Still", the consequences of failure are "too terrible to contemplate" (Since I'm quoting from memory, that may not be exact, but that's the gist of his remark.) In any case, it's clear that we will have to make ourselves ethically, spiritually, and intellectually worthy of the high frontier, if we are to have any hope of gaining a foot-hold there. The environment's too hostile for us to be anything less than our best, and and success both on the frontier, and at home in Earth's Biosphere, likewise requires and deserves nothing less than our best. My hope rests on a number of foundations, one of which is that: since the Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, David Suzuki, Abraham Lincoln, Mahatma Ghandi, Susan B anthony, Marie Curie, Nicola Tesla, Sergei Korolev, Mary Woolstoncraft, Mary Shelley, Yuri Gragarin, Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin, and countless others, at least some of whom you can name, the available evidence is that Humanity's best can be pretty damn good, and, maybe, even up to the challenges we face. Passing our final exam will become certain if we can find and awaken the courage, compassion, and other virtues, that lie within us all, however hidden and/or dormant.
oops, looks like I drifted a little off-topic, or did I?
All the Best

Doug, The Crazy Canuck.

BUSINESS AS USUAL IS A SUICIDE PACT. UP TO THE STARS, OR DOWN WITH THE DINOSAURS. THERE IS NO THIRD ALTERNATIVECOLONIZE THE SOLAR SYSTEM. IT'S A DOWN TO EARTH SOLUTION.