SSTOs

"W. Larrison" wrote: Just a personal comment on the book. Harry Stine was a True believer about the DC-X.In my opinion, you need to take a lot of what is in the book with a grain of salt.Theres some good information in there, but some of the ways he describes some things have other explanations as well, and some of the things he describes in there are flat out wrong.

The DC-X was an interesting project and it broke free around a billion dollars to be spent researching SSTOs and related technologies.But I would note that McDonnell Douglas, the company which built the DC-X was *not* a believer in the Delta Clipper (although some of the team who worked on the DC-X were).And there were some technical problems with the Delta Clipper which were quickly hidden. Its interesting to note every time McDonnell Douglas was asked to really provide a plan for the Delta Clipper (or DC-Y, or whatever to follow the DC-X), the costs kept going up and the companys commitment to the project kept going down.At first they said, they could build an orbital capable vehicle for a few hundred millions.Then it was a billion.Then it was several billions, after they built another, larger test vehicle.Then they said they wouldnt put up any of their own money until the government built an orbit-capable vehicle.And when they were asked to bid for the government-funded X-33 test vehicle to follow the DC-Xthey bid something that was by far the worst option of any of the other companies bidding. >[ ... ]I wanted to get info on the Delta Clipper >specifically since that seemed so promising and I wondered >why it was abandoned.[ ...] >Who was the culprit?Why no one else but NASA of >course.[ ...] Id also lay part of the blame to some of the enthusiasts who promised a lot of things to people and never delivered.While NASA did some things that I really didnt like in this debacle, Id also note there were other players in this game, including some of the enthusiasts who took the view that there is only one way of doing thing (their way!), and anyone who didnt agree with them were evil dishonorable criminals. >[ ... ] The Delta Clipper worked so well because those who >built it wanted results and a Cheap SSTO to carry >passengers and cargo into orbit.The Delta itself was a >test vehicle but it would have lead to a woring SSTO.Why >there is no DC-XA2 and why NASA sucks donkey shit is >detailed in the book. The Delta Clipper was never built.It never existed except on a few viewgraphs done by McDonnell Douglas.As a note, MD promised that if they got the DC-X contract, they would complete a preliminary design for the Delta Clipper during the DC-X program.They never did... The DC-X was an interesting and useful program.And while it did some interesting demonstrations, there were many many things it didnt demonstrate that were needed for a SSTO program. I have a copy of Halfway to Anywhere and I know personally folks on the DC-X and other SSTO teams. I've done a fair bit of work looking at SSTOs and how to structure a business case to get commercial investment for them.Harry Stines book is worth reading, but you really have to read it with a grain of salt, since it was written by a true believer in a specific way of doing it.
I wish you didn't use HTML or XML tags, my mail program doesn't handle non standard HTML tags well
and doesn't handle XML tags at all.
If there were things "flat out wrong" in the book I would like to know where I could find the information.
After I read the book I tried looking up other sources including aeronautics sites to check out the physics.
I didn't find anything wrong so far. If Stine made up facts then he sucks too but I would like sources.
I generally don't like to use only one book on a subject.
As far as NASA being a hindrance rather than a help I have not read anything to the contrary yet. Stine's
description of their behavior matches what I know of how beaurocracies work. If Stine was "grinding an axe"
and NASA isn't full of wasteful clowns then I appologise right now! though Freeman Dyson and others
also seem to think NASA blocks the road to space.
I seem to remember the Delta Clipper being the name for the DC-X test rocket. Was it to be the name of the final vehicle as well? I thought it was only known as the SSX.
Why would the DC-Y cost so much more than the DC-X? Sure it would be bigger but the DC-X worked so well
until it fell over and burned up. Was there something wrong with the math involving engine design and stresses?
I am often annoyed that books on technical subjects don't put the math in, even as a side note. The book
"The Starflight Handbook" puts the technical notes and math in as sidebars and boxes for those who want to check the
math and engineering.
As far as blaming enthusiasts, Anyone who promises something thay cannot deliver is to blame in any enterprise.
You should only promise what you can deliver or state that you think you might be able to. I think this is one of the
reasons investors are so wary. Too many people lie so they must assume everone lies unless proven wrong.
Oh well......
I liked the DC-X becuase it worked. It did everything it was supposed to do and cost less then some movies
do to make. The design philosopy of build a little fly a little makes a lot of sense to me also.
Designing ships on paper is great but you need to fly things to see if they work. they got the DC-X Flying very quickly
compared with the shuttle development cycles.
I hope I didn't piss you or anyone else off, that was not my intention. I had got really angry after I read that book
and saw what NASA was doing and read what technical info Stine did put in his book. I do have a background in
science and math so I checked up what I could given what resources I have avalible and the fact stine was citing
specific examples of chicanery on NASAs part lead me to believe him. I thought others on this list might want to read
this book also. I am glad you pointed out he might have been telling stories though it annoys me that people
do this. One starts to feel everyone lies about everything in their own interests and you can believe nothing.
I am interested in what you are doing though and in the people you know. I hope we can correspond. I would also
love suggestions of sources of information I might investigate to get a more balanced view.
Thank you!
Darkstar