what we really need to go into space

> Virtual creations are just that: Virtual. And regardless of the amount of
> time computing rocket designs, there will still be necessary real life tests
> to check the results and provide relevant data. WIthout that, you get a
> feedback loop that amplifies some things and supresses others without
> necessarily reflecting reality. I challenge to be the first person to fly a
> production craft that has only been virtually designed! :)

Then the simulations just arent; good enough yet. And yes, one may want
to calibrate them against reality. But the cost may be decreased several
orders of magnitude when the complex system works the first or second
time. and only a fe calibration tests were needed a long the way. That
mbrings space settlement costs down to the point where a billion or so
dolalrs for real hardware may be all that is needed for NASA's advanced
automation for space missions concept (self replicating lunar factory).
And I'm sure such a movement could get that billion as a billionaire's
hobby expense if the rest was in place (or via other means -- NASA, a
foundation, etc.).

>>The biggest restriction is IMHO the mindset -- we're all still waiting
>>for the government and/or big business to bail us out from problems they
>>often as not have created for us themselves (i.e. pollution, arms races,
>>high taxes keeping people from having spare time for space hobbies,
>>oppressive patents and copyrights and employment agreements keeping
>>engineers from cooperating in their spare time, etc.).
>
> High taxes... Hmmmm. Don't those result mostly from the massive entitlements
> that everyone wants? The ones the let people relax and have times for
> hobbies?
>
> Hobbies? I think that the vast majority of all great things come form the
> combined and concerted efforts of people.

Like GNU/Linux?

Like the English (or any other) language?

Like our collective stories and myths?

> This by definition rules out
> hobbiests to a huge degree.

See above.

> Afterall, people must earn enough to support
> themselves and pay for the hobbies, unless we tax the living daylights out
> of people who do work to pay for those who don't feel like it.Witness the
> coming problems in Europe

Europe seems to be doing quite well considering the population density
is far greater than the US for much less land and resources and they
have had much more losses from wars in the past.

> Would enough people collect garbage as a hobby to keep the sanitation issues
> in check? And so on. If only it were a perfect world where manna rained from
> heaven and no one had to work on anything unless they really wanted to, and
> the rest good indulge in whatever it is they like. Personally I hope the
> manna comes in the form of cookies - oatmeal raisin are my favorite. But
> then I would become corpulent - Oh the inhumanity of reality! It intrudes
> upon my dreams!

First off, manna does continually rain from heaven -- hunter/gatherers
used to live that way (where fruit was picked of the trees and
everything else was play or enjoyable challenges) -- it's only increased
population density that has lead to various shifts toward hard labor in
agriculture and industry as the population exceeded the obvious manna
levels. (I'm not saying to return to that exact way of life -- just to
consider it as the niche people evolved in and a distribution of effort
that human inclinations respond well to).

See for example:
http://www.deoxy.org/endwork.htm

The point there is, 90% of work is unnecessary. What remains could be
rethought to be more fun -- and so not "work". For example, why do you
have garbage that needs to be taken away anyway? Perhaps there are too
many cheap products that don't last, enshrouded in too much packaging
that you can't compost (partially to deter shoplifting because rationing
(via federal reserve notes)), and so on based on designers not
prioritizing end-of-life costs.

And with much useless work eliminated (e.g. most human labor involved in
the US health care system related to pushign around paper and electronic
bits) -- we would have more time for space settlement as a hobby activity.

--Paul Fernhout