Mars Base Zero

Ray-

Thanks for the informative replies to this and the other post. Thanks
for the comments on the composting -- I know with even the Clivus
Multrum there is a recommendation (at least the person I know said they
did this) to put the resulting humus only around ornamental crops. And
when I've read about earlier composting toilet users (1970s Farralones
institute) they were finding pathogens survived the composting process
(and as some were Peace Crops alumni, they had some weird stuff still in
there). So, I can see your point about sterilization,. For your
convenience, something like an off-the-shelf well engineered Clivus
Multrum or other composting toilet, coupled with a last stage
sterilization step sounds like a good solution to the issue (and you say
now you are moving in that direction for odor reasons). I know the
Todd's claimed they could produce clean drinking water from sewage, so I
would be curious whether you believed that or not, and if you did, why
the Todd's water based system was not appropriate for your situation
(too big and expensive?)

Some more comments/questions (feel free to skip them is you are short of
time):

On LUF/SEES-1; their focus was different than yours, and I think some
main issues were that the physical effort of putting stuff together is
not something everyone likes to do or does well as essential as it is
(personally I'm more a computer guy myself as opposed to my neighbor
with the back hoe etc.) Another issue was I think that they were
thinking somewhat more about social issues (including interacting with
neighbors), and I think that was a bit of an issue (with that particular
community making more demands on him than providing support). Also, that
effort was 100% full time as opposed to experimental data collection.
So, a lot of different issues from a different emphasis.

Do you think there could be any value in having one or more cheap large
mirrors (perhaps made of mylar or something like that?) outside your
greenhouse to reflect more of the limited fall and winter sun into your
crop growing area? I would think this would be cheap to set up, however,
I don't know if it would help much with slow plant growth, and I don't
know what it would take to make them maintainable in the face of frost,
snow, rain, etc. in your climate (I guess on Mars you would face
sandstorms).

This is in the category of maybe doable but certainly expensive and
probably not that useful, but I think it would be cool if you had some
sort of external robot (Aibo? iRobot? other?) with some sort of
manipulator and a wireless link you controlled from your computer so you
could cruise it around the area. Maybe even something like on of the
Mars ground explorer type robots? Anyway, maybe just silly, but maybe it
might help with repairs, or fetching things, or maybe just fun if you
ever feeling like you are in need of stretching your virtual legs.

Another though on growing season issues -- instead of mirrors, maybe it
is just more practical to grow most of your staple food with lots of
carbohydrates (like potatoes) in the long summer sunshine, and then
store it for winter, and just grow limited fresh veggies in the winter?
I guess what I am getting at is that there is a difference in an
implicit notion of being able to have the garden produce all the food
you need each day, as opposed to the garden being able to produce all
the food you need over the course of a year (with some storage).

Also, on the topic of food and self-replication, do you think your
approach would change much if you needed to produce your own seeds
inside the system? (I assume you are getting your seeds from outside?)
Also, would that affect your choice of crops? (You might use less
hybrids, for example.) A link: "Seeds for Survival"
http://www.seedsforsurvival.com/
but there are other groups as well I think (Seed Savers, etc.)
http://www.seedsavers.net/
So, maybe as a question, are you saving seeds?

Also, just for fun on self replication:
"Build a Complete Metalworking Shop from Scrap! The Legendary Series
of Machine Tool Construction Manuals"
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/

Also, on gardening for one person, there is a book called _Survival
Gardening: Enough Nutrition to Live on... Just in Case_ by John A. Freeman
http://www.victoryseeds.com/bookstore/books_gardening.html#survival
http://www.victoryseeds.com/catalog/vegetable/salsify/salsify_nutrition.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0960773053/002-4052544-2832837
which had a lot of interesting thinking on what it takes to support one
person with nutritional balance. (I have a copy; I had wanted aspect of
our garden simulator to reflect that as a game mode, but we ran out of
time/energy; we also really lvoe the Squeare foot gardenign book you
mentioned, that was another inspiration for our work). One big thing I
learned about gardening form working on our simulator is that every
climate has its own unique gardening issues, so Freeman's suggestions
might not be right for your specific climate.

It sounds like a very exciting project. Also, I don't know if that is
your first kid coming up or not, but we had our first a little over a
year ago and he pretty much soaked up all our spare time (which I had
hoped to put more into space settlement issues, and only now are thigns
calming down a little), so if you are like me and my wife, don't hope to
get too much done after the birth for a long while (as frustrating as
that may be to put stuff on the back burner). :-) Everything about kids
says the best time to put time and attention into them is in the first
year or two when they are growing so rapidly. Got to invest in
"self-replicating" the next generation of top-notch Mars enthusiasts,
right? Anyway, all the best. (Kid is getting up from his nap, so got to
run!)

--Paul Fernhout