Population Control Policy Issues

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, Lucio de Souza Coelho
wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 October 2003 18:07, Joe wrote:
> (...)
>> On the subject of a closed system approaching a (too darn
small)
>> population crisis.... While I agree that many people find "Brave
new
>> world" style baby factories repulsive, I submit that this is a
work of
>> fiction - ie, the author was TRYING to be as repulsive as
possible. Actual
>> 'baby factories' (if they ever exist) may not bear any
resemblance to the
>> ones in BNW at all - or even be called 'baby factories'.
>
> I don't think that the baby factories in BNW are repulsive. Maybe
one day
> ectogenesis will be the preferred way for having children. Very
comfortable
> and without body sequels for women, and perhaps safer. Besides,
fetuses in
> glasses are kind of cute. (Okay, my aesthetic tastes are slightly
distorted.
> :-)
>
> My main "concern" in BNW was raising children in orphanage-like
institutions.
> I think that we have hardwired instincts demanding something like
a family...

Okay, I think we may be on the same page here, but I wanted to
counter the potential for horror associated with comparing breeding
practices with BNW. And I think you may have a very valid point
about us being hard-wired for a family oriented life-style; several
million years of primate evolution don't just go out the door
whenever we think it's convenient for it to do so.

>> Could you please
>> elaborate on the subject of 'Paid Families'? Would a paid family
have to
>> have 20 children? Or would 3 be acceptable? Is there something
in this
>> concept as you see it that is inherently repulsive? If so,
what? Could
>> every family be a paid family, or would there be a selection
process?
>
> Unwillingly, I think that I raised an issue related to paid
families in my
> other post where I pictured a birth-control system where people
could sell
> the right to have children.

Which seems okay to me - at least, if you make conception a
limited commodity then people will find ways to trade it for cash.
Better to come right out and make the trade visible and subject to
the reasonable controls required to prevent abuses; than to pretend
such a trade doesn't (or won't) exist.

> As for your questions:
>
> - No, the concept of paid families does not sound utterly
revolting to me. In
> some extent, that already exists: there are countries where the
government
> gives subsidies/fiscal incentives for people who have children.
> - I really don't know how to answer the questions about the ideal
number of
> children per family and how the families would be selected. I
think different
> mega-corps would have different answers for that. Indeed, I just
imagined a
> bizarre mega-corp eugenics program where they would select
families that
> produce a lot and consume a lot - the ideal family under a market
view. Over
> many generations, they would build a population of ber-compulsive-
consumers
> and ber-workaholics (and floppy ears :-).

Okay - here we've gone from paying families to have children
(which is an interesting issue in its own right) to corporate
eugenic control over employees. True enough that given a eugenics
program, any number of complex behaviors or predispositions could
eventually be selected for, but this has some elements that deserve
discussion on their own. But even before we get started on the
breeding issue and the desirability of floppy ears, I notice you
have posited a series of habitats, each controlled by a single
corporate entity - this is an interesting background all by itself.
As an aside, I sure as heck wouldn't want to permanently settle in
one.
Can we discuss these seperately? Would you accept or advocate
a government controlling its population size through establishing a
system of financial rewards and disincentives? How effective do you
forsee such a plan being? Are there any possible loopholes or
potential abuses that you could forsee?
In the case of the corporate habitat - would such a habitat be
subject to any governmental laws, or could the corporation rule by
fiat? If the companies - and their habitats - are answerable to
(for example) the laws of the country they are incorporated in, then
how do you ensure compliance?

>
> (...)
>> Joe
> (...)
>
> Lucio

Just a few thoughts, and thanks for sharing yours.

Joe.