Mars and Island One

From: sraj [mailto:sraj@...]

> Read through your interesting reference. I am not against
free-floating habs. All I am saying is that putting up some
> kind of hab on Moon or Mars will be easier in the *Near Future*.

If by "hab" you mean a base for some 10's of people, I'd agree that the
moon might be easier than HEO, for some of the reasons you give. (I
still don't see Mars being easier, given the vast difference in flight
times.) I'd say it's when you start talking permanent settlements for
thousands of people that the High Frontier advantages begin to come into
play. They particularly come into play at the point where you're trying
to achieve economic viability, which right now is more of an issue than
technical viability.

> 2. If you have the technology and the machinery to process ores in
space, well, a fraction of that technology is sufficient to put up a
more modest hab on Moon or Mars.

If we're talking a "more modest hab" free of any attempts to make use of
local materials, then we /already/ have a more modest hab in Earth
orbit. I'm not interested in comparing High Frontier, with its space
mining and refining, with setting up some kind of prefab modules on the
moon or Mars because they're not valid comparisons. The returns are not
the same. High Frontier should only be compared with similarly
ambitious plans for the moon or Mars with similar habitat populations
and similar returns.

> In the near future, before terraforming is made possible (on Mars),

In which case we're defining "near future" to mean the next several
centuries.

> a sealed environment will be necessary for
> agriculture whether we have the facility in space or on Moon and
Mars. It will be simpler to set up the facility on Moon
> or Mars.

Why? Why is agriculture inherently more difficult in orbit than on the
moon or Mars? On the moon, one is blocked from the sun for 2 weeks at a
time. On Mars, the insolation levels are about half what crops are used
to on Earth.

> I think we are underestimating the difficulty inherent in working is
space. (The cumbersome way in which Astronauts do
> their space walks, and the recent dropping of plans to upgrade the
Space Telescope using the Space Shuttle underscores
> the difficulty.)

The abandonment of Hubble has more to do with the sending of the Shuttle
to an orbit with no safe haven than with any insuperable difficulties of
working in 0-G.

> 3. In any case, if the resources of the Moon are going to be used to
make a giant space hab, it makes sense to put up a
> settlement on the Moon to start with.

Agreed, though I would use the term "industrial facility" rather than
"settlement".

> 4. G of 0.38 on Mars seems to be good enough.

In whose opinion? The opinion of those dedicated to settling Mars?
Backed up by what scientific studies?

The reality is that at the present day, we have data on 1-G, some data
on 0-G, and absolutely zip on 1/3 G or long-term affects of 1/6 G.

> If the space suit permits good freedom of movement, jumping and
running on Mars should keep a man healthy. (Someone who
> has worn a space suit can comment on this!)

I think you're confusing cardio-vascular exercise with loading exercise.
The latter is what's needed here.

> 5. With all the concerns raised regarding terrorist attacks on Earth -
with habs in Earth and Moon orbits being used as
> kinetic energy weapons - will it be better to build free floating habs
in Mars orbit?

I'm sure long-term there will be habitats orbiting Mars. But it's
difficult seeing the first few generation habitats being built anywhere
other than places with nearby markets to service. And near-term, that's
going to be cislunar space.

> Putting up a modest operation on Mars with say a hundred people will
ignite the mind of the young and eventually make
> large free floating space habs possible.

Why is it taken for granted that a 100 person base on Mars is more
inspirational than a 100 person base in HEO? If we could sustain 1000
people in HEO for about the same price as 100 people on Mars, which
would be more inspirational?

Besides, in the real world, providing returns on investment is going to
have more to do with it than providing inspiration.

Regards,

Mike Combs