Hello everyone!

In a message dated 4/4/05 10:00:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mikecombs@...
writes:
> From: jwsmith42000@... [mailto:jwsmith42000@...]
>
> > These reasons include laziness, wanting someone else to pay for it
> > and messiah's who intentionally misdirect our efforts and resources.
>
> This latter sounds a bit paranoid to me. For example, as one who feels
> strongly that orbital habitats are vastly superior to planetary ones, I
> might well classify Zubrin as a "misdirecting messiah," but I would
> still agree that he was entirely sincere in his beliefs.

I like your use of the word "was." However, I have never and do not now have
any respect for the "Mars Society." I do not believe anything they have done
or will do, will help us in any way.
I am not paranoid but I do not like anyone who begs the government to steal
my money, and then waste much of it on useless activities that will not do us
any good. Robert Zubrin does that on a regular basis.

> > However, we will have settlements on Luna and Mars sometime
> > before we have O'Neill Colonies because, believe what ever
> > you will, it will be the planet centric people who will be
> > the first to spend their own money to get the job done.
>
> You seem to assume that the colonization of space will start with people
> paying their own way. Some of us tend to assume that at least at the
> starting point, it's going to be driven by corporations engaging in
> profitable activities beyond the Earth, and thus supporting people there
> to run their businesses. If we're right, then where the first permanent
> human settlements get built might be less an issue of which location
> would win in a poll among space enthusiasts, and more of where the
> economic opportunities are. Some of us feel that a good case can be
> made for more near-term economic opportunities being available in the
> spaces near the Earth than on a planet in another part of the solar
> system.

You could be right and I would like that. It really would be a wonderful
thing, but what can you or I do to make such happen. I am not going to hold my
breath waiting for it.

> Eventually, the settlement of space will be self-driven, and largely
> self-funded. But we expect it to begin as the settlement of the New
> World began: with fur trappers, farmers growing tea and tobacco, and
> gold-seekers, all largely subsidized by European investors looking for a
> profitable return.

I seriously doubt that. I believe that space will be settled in the beginning
by people who want to be different.

> > Unfortunately there is a large part of the off Earth planet
> > centric group who want others to pay the way. Those who will
> > want to live in large O'Neill type communities will wait until
> > the way has been paved and proven by the planet centric group
> > and there are regular trips to somewhere.
>
> Well, there are two schools of thought in the "others will pay the way"
> assumption. There's the Zubrin et. al. assumption where national
> governments fund the development of colonies on Mars simply because it's
> the right and noble thing to do. An assumption made from the beginning
> is that the settlements on Mars will eventually become independent
> nations. So national governments are assumed to be willing to fund the
> establishment of other (possibly competing) independent nations.
> There's no historical precedent for such a deliberate creation of
> nations.
>
> Then there's the O'Neill assumption where multinational corporations
> invest in economic opportunities beyond the Earth. They pay to support
> people beyond the Earth to run their operations for them. These
> settlements gradually become independent nations without any particular
> plan to that effect on the part of the corporations, and certainly
> outside any plans of any existing nation. And that's pretty much how
> nations in the New World came to be.

I would rather have the second of these scenarios.

> Regards, Mike Combs

I can support your position, but I will follow my own path in trying to get
out there. Being planet centric I will stick to trying to get people to settle
Mars as soon as is possible.

Thanks,

John Wayne Smith CEO
1000 Planets, Inc.
http://www.1000Planets.com
Email: ceo@...