New Member

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "victoriatangoman"
wrote:
>
> --- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" wrote:
>
> > I feel that to do a decent job of researching even a small world
> > like Mars, we will need to have some sort of support structure to
> > feed, house, and clothe the researchers. Not to mention
> > transportation.
>
> OK, being very careful to not read into your comments anything beyond
> what you've written. LOL :)
>
> I see your reference to researching Mars. I have no issues with that.
> What do you mean by support structure? I would think that the housing
> and clothes would be sent from Earth. The food would be grown locally
> but with many of the implements also sent from Earth. Do you disagree?

That depends on how much it costs to transport stuff from Earth.
>
> The alternative is to source them locally. To grow cotton, let's say,
> then someone, or some machine, has to pick it. Then it has to be
> prepared in a cotton mill. Then woven into fabric. Then cut into
> clothes. This seems like an awfully complex and *mass intensive* (mass
> coming from Earth) process all in order to support a research community.

Why cotton? Why not synthetics?
>
> > A lot of territory to cover. And by the time it has been
> > researched, there will probably be people who have lived there most
> > of their life.
>
> Seeing how these researchers are sent up there on the taxpayer's dime
> don't you think that there would be Earthside clamoring from other
> scientists who also want a go at a Mars mission. For some scientists
> to stay there for their whole lives would foreclose the opportunity
> for other, and perhaps younger, scientists.
>
Scientist have to eat. They need transportation. Not to mention
clothes, housing, etc. You are forgotting all the support personnel.

> Darn, the oldsters got there first, when I was still in grade school
> and couldn't compete for a slot. Now it's 20 years later and I'm a
> promising young researcher and I need to be on Mars to test my
> hypothesis, but they want me to write a research plan and radio it to
> the scientists on Mars to conduct. Those old fossils, and I don't mean
> the indiginous variety either, are still on Mars and with them there
> doing the work, they don't need me. I better call my Congressman or UN
> delegate or whatever, and complain.
>
Now Tangoman. Take three deep breaths and try to compose yourself.
Don't want you going off the deep end again.

> > By the time Mars is totally checked out, it will probably have a
> > permenant population.
>
> This I don't see, unless that research population grows to such a
> size, that some beancounters decide that it'll make more sense to ship
> up a cotton mill, steel foundry, and other industrial equipment,
> rather than simply provide the supplies.
>

This depends on costs. It may be cheaper tp ship stuff from the
Asteroid Belt or Luna.

> I don't see the leap from research station and personnel to a
> permanent population. Can you break it down in baby steps for me? No,
> honestly, I'm not being facetious here.
>
I still think that on a world so far from Earth, you are going to need
plenty of support personnel. Scientist are going to be too busy to
put up housing, grow food, provide fuel for a transportation system
(Mars is a big place), etc.

> > Incidentally while we cannot build a beanstalk from the Earth's
> > surface to geosynchonous orbit today, I've read that one could be
> > built on Mars using current strength of materials.
>
> Yes, the engineering is definitely more plausible, but *why* would we
> want to?
>
You talk about supplying the material for an in-depth survey of an
entire world. Just think of all the rocket fuel it would take. A
Beanstalk would save a lot of money.

> > Mars being closer than most asteroids, would mean that it could
> > supply material (even ores) as cheaply as the asteroid belt.
> >
> > Rick Brooks
>
> Closer how, in kilometers, or in delta-v? Delta-v is the metric we
> need to look at. Your statement also doesn't account for access to
> NEOs that are closer in, in both km and delta-v, than Mars.
>
> TangoMan

Delta-v is what counts here.

Are there really that many NEOs?

Mars many also be a useful stepping stone to colonizing the Asteroid
Belt. And suppling material for the same.

Rick Brooks