Africa (was ...10 trillion people in this solar system?)

Hi,

> There is a difference in belieing 'El dorado' exists or did exist,
> and
> believing 'we could build El dorado if we wanted to'. One is
> faith, the
> other is engineering.

Myth drove Von Braun as well. He and his partner, Walt Disney, made
a lot of specials promoting the idea of the trip to the moon and the
conquest of space during the 50s. I believe that "mythological"
campain was the main driving force that send Americans to space.

> Whjo said anything about a playground? If you live to be 200 you
>won't be
> withdraw a meaningful pension at 65. You might be able to take a
>break at
> that age for a few years, but you'll be working longer.
>Nationally, society
> will get a significantly greater return in the money invested in
>the
> education of its citizens.

Have you never took into consideration that people get tired of
living? Why to preserve walking corpses instead of letting people to
die with dignity when nature say it is time to go?

> Who decides what a 'senior citizen' is? Anyone over 40? There were
>several
> movies made about that. It's a stupid way to run society. Perhaps
>stupid
> people, the disabled and unpopular minorities should also be put
>up against
> a wall and shot to make way for 'more important people'? Which is
>pretty
> much the same thing.

Nobody is thinking in killing people. The point is to allow death to
make its part. People that want to avoid death or pospone it
forever, really don't accept human nature. Death is part of it and
we should accept it.

>
> It also assumes a zero sum enviroment. Maybe rich old people (150
>year
> pension = lots of cash!) will choose to settle on mars? They would
>easily be
> able to afford it.

Oh my God! You read "Red Mars" don't you? Senior citizens conquering
the red planet. What a crap :)
Well, I preffer "Mars" from Ben Bova. I thing the later is more
realistic than the former.

>
> > Thanks God the myth of the ethernal youth is so unlikely to be
> > reached like the perpetual motion machine.
>
> Eternal youth is unreasonable. Nothing lasts for ever.
>Significantly
> extended youth, and life spans in general is not. Humans do not
>come with a
> sell by date.

Well, if you believe "Viagra" is the way of going, perhaps you got a
point. That's funny. Do you know that in Spanish Vi-agra is a short
form of "Happy old ladies" (VIejas AGRAdecidas) :)

Yes, perhaps in the future old fellows will be full of chemicals and
cyborg tech. A Frankestein world, I am afraid.

> Quantum mechanics was used to design the computer I'm using to
>write this
> sentence.

And what? the engineers of the industrial revolutions had very
little education and contributed as well. So what's the point?

>It is an accurate way to preduict atomic behaviour, not a myth.

Accuracy is not all. The geocentric theory of Ptolomey was very
accurate for navigation and it was still false.

> If
> the theory is superceeded it's likely that QM will still be used
> by computer
> makers for the same reason newtons laws are still used by bridge
> builders.

Do you have a crystal ball? In a thousand years from now there is a
good chance both Newton's and QM will be considered nice
approximations but inacurate. Like Lammarck evolutionary theory is
today.

>
> They were killed because of the unscientific and groundless myths
>of the
> nazi party, which had *absolutely* *nothing* to do with Darwin's
> observations of nature.

No. They are related. Remember that the ideas of darwin started with
Malthusian concepts, and that Galton, the founder of Eugenics, was a
cousin of Darwin. Spencer, the creator of "social darwinism", had
the same ideas than Darwin and they influenced each other. Even in
his own book, "Ascent of Man", Darwin talks about "inferior"
and "superior" races. Hitler was just the guy that put into practise
many of the criminal ideas that were boiling in the West because of
Darwinian ideas being applyied to the interpretation of society.
Even today, books like "The bell curve" still make use of those
ideas in the wrong way.

Nobody is saying Darwin's evolution was wrong. I believe it were
their interpretations which were the ones that caused the crimes we
all know.

> >
> > Don't you know SCIENCE put us at the edge of atomic extinction?
> >

> If you hate or fear 'science' or knowledge, and/or think we should
>start
> burning 'dangerous' books then say so.

Nobody fears science or knowledge. However, sometimes I fear certain
scientists. Particularly when they don't follow ethical rules. Yes,
I fear scientists that expose soldiers to radioactivity to see what
happens. I fear scientists that make experiments with small kids in
the concentration camps. And I fear scientists that justify the lack
of concern of big corporation with the environment or the security
of people.

>Again, science is a method used to
> observe nature and obtain accurate conclusions. It has never and
>can never
> 'do' anything except help advance knowledge.

Science is a tool, nothing else. Science is a kitchen recipe.

>People then apply it to do all
> sorts of silly things. Then they blaim science for it because it's
>an easy
> target and they have no desire to find the real culpret.
>

Knowledge is dangerous. The ancients knew that so they teach
knowledge to only certain guys that were ethically prepared.
So only a few knew how to produce poissons, drugs, and even gun
powder (in China). That's the idea behind the myth of the "tree of
knowledge" of Genesis: knowledge is dangerous and has to be treated
with care.

Imagine everyone would know how to make a nuke. Today everyone knows
how to make a conventional bomb and see how much terrorism exist in
the world today.

Knowledge is dangerous. It has to be treated with care.

>
> Delete innocence and substitute 'ignorance'. You are assuming a
>hell of a
> lot there about motivation. Given that they are human, and based
>on the
> archeological evidence, it's highly likely they were as 'innocent'
>as any
> other sadistic bunch of thugs.

I believe you are "ignorant" of the fact the Inca sacrifices were
less common and a lot of less cruel that the Aztec of Anasazi ones.
As the matter of fact, perhaps one of the most common form of Inca
sacrifice was death by freezing. People was let to die in the upper
montains after drunk drugs and alcohol.

They practised those sacrifices to ask for the help of the mother
land. Yes, human sacrifices are superstitions (by today's standard)
that existed in every single culture of the ancient world. But
variation of it still exist in the modern world. We still sacrifice
people for the well being of the community: death penalties,
soldiers killed for the country, policemen killed for the public
order, etc. Even more, many times young fellows just practise human
sacrifices in honor of their own egos, by doing risky sports.

Times change but humans don't.

>
> > > How would this apply to the Loch Ness Monster, UFOs or Bigfoot?
> > Well, myths are also these
>
> Ah, so *some* myths are just nonsense then? ;)
>

Yes. Just like some scientific hypothesis. lol :)

> Star Wars and Star Trek are definately part of contempoary
>mythology - but
> the difference is that no one believes that they are real.

Aha!!!! I got you :)

There are people that BELIEVE those myths are real.

Do you know how many people believe UFOs are real?

Have you hear about "scientology" created in 1952 by the mediocre
science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard?

Have you heared about the "Heavens gate"?

Or about JJ Benitez, the Bermuda triangle, Van Danniken?

Yes, there are LOT OF PEOPLE that believe those myths are real!!!

>I think you're
> stretching the definition of 'myth' more than a little to apply it
>to
> blueprints or future planning.
>

Myths are a central part to understand human behavoir and societies.
Is part of the psycology of masses. Read Jung and you could grasp
what is going on.

> If I intend to shoot up on drugs this friday, rob a bank on
>saturday, then
> visit a working girl on sunday - then you can call that all sorts
>of things,
> including planning, but I wouldn't call it mythology. Save for the
>fact that
> it is completely fictional!
>

Myths are not just tales. Myths are symbols, like a flag or a
ritual. Think a little bit about it and you'll realize the world is
plenty of myths. More than we usually think.

Regards,

Omar Vega