satellite refueling and menstruation

--- In spacesettlers@yahoogroups.com, "janet_baker76"
wrote:

> The reason we are talking about all humanity is that the earth is
taking on a kind of "world culture" instead of widely separated
groups of people who thus might have a chance to avoid contamination
or temptation.

This process is true basically within the industrialised Western
world. The world is however undergoing deep divisions as well as
consolidation within these major groups. Radical Islam is emerging as
an 'alternative lifestyle' to the liberalizing influence of Western
mass communication. Thus you see movies and ready access to
international mass media restricted in places like Iran and Saudi
Arabia. They also ban birth control in order to try to assure the
dominance of traditionalist society, based on religion. Perhaps such
societies would be to your liking.
I am for giving more choices to people, not less. the very affluence
in western civilization which makes luxeries like space travel
possible are largely due to low birth rates allowing greater career
choices to millions of people, including women.

> If enough Romans had struggled against the
maladaptive behaviors (notice how even now neither one of us spells
it out, exactly what is meant by that; cause we sure don't want to
be politically incorrect, or maybe uncharitable, to take a kinder
interpretation; but it is possible to tell the truth charitably, it
just takes balls), maybe Rome would have continued to dominate.
Maybe their system, which was pretty good, would have jumped us
ahead a few generations, maintained "the peace of Rome" a while
more, and we'd already be on a space colony by now.

So... you are hinting that acceptance of alternate (such as gay)
life styles led to the fall of Rome and the collapse of civilization?
This is an old canard repeated endlessly by religious fanatics. Rome
fell because of a number of factors. Gibbon saw a pattern emerge with
the rise of Christianity and the fall of Rome as the oppressed slave
class was given new hope for a better hereafter. Later work has
emphasized the impact of Invasions and epidemics as well as the rise
of other economic centers outside the shrinking empire.
Scientific progress was set back 1000 years in the West largely
because of the agendas of Christian culture. Books were burned and
'The World' was taught to be a horrible place unworthy of grappling
with in order to make progress in favor of contemplation of a heavenly
afterlife. What started out as a liberationg influence for a huge
slave class turned into largely a repressive one, with the 'Dark Ages'
resulting. Only a few monks could read at all, and ancient texts faded
from circulation in favor of Bibles and religious commentary.

> -snip- and what woman in her right
mind cannot see the handwriting on the wall with abortion and gay
marriage? Are we better off? Happier? Healthier? Look up some
statistics and you'll see the clear answer to all these is, No.

Be careful about quoting statistics, you might be called upon to cite
your references. With choice comes the possibility of making mistakes,
but living in rigid Puritanical societies is worse.

> If I were to exercise "my" sexuality outside of marriage
and outside of the act of creation of new life, I would affect
society deeply even if slowly. It's just not "mine." And it's
not "yours," either. That is not to say either one of us won't be
lonely sometimes. It's something we can bear, though.

I am appalled that many people take a pathalogical interest in
condemning how other consenting adults enjoy themselves. They heap the
ills of society upon them, label them as the cause, and enjoy
persecuting them. The last century reeks of these kinds of tragic
crusades, and history stands in mute testimony to all this for those
who take the trouble to learn.
Sex is not just to make babies, it is for couple bonding, and it is
for pleasure! No need to be ashamed of this, and no need to condemn
others for deciding to fall short of the largest amount of breeding
possible! I came of age in the late 60's in a time of great personal
liberation, the beginning of the days when you can live together
without being married, and I can't say I'm sorry for that!
That era was the 'Golden Age' of manned exploration of outer space by
the 'establishment' as well as the mass 'trips' to 'inner' space by
millions of the counterculture. LSD brought as much change as the
sight of the Earth in space, and the publishers of the Whole Earth
Catalog, outlets for both 'space' related aspects, said it all with
the words to the effect of 'We are as Gods and we might as well get
good at it'.
We have the brains to look ahead and oversee our lives in order to
decide for ourselves what we want to do. The rise of the affluent
societies with enough leisure time to contemplate assuming the role of
Gods of our own Destiny is due to the increasing choices we have
worked hard to provide individuals.

> And I support you, I really do, as a gay person, your right to
otherwise dress and act however you feel moved, without
discrimination against you. And I speak up when I hear it. That
doesn't mean I have to rent a house to you and your lover, or
support your adopting kids. Serve kids in other ways.
Give up sex. Sublimate, for the sake of the whole. It worked for
centuries.

If you would discriminate against an unmarried couple based on
religion, I consider that a kind of low level hate crime. it reminds
me of the days when people of African ancestry were routinely denied
housing, jobs and such. Religion was also used to justify a lot of
this. You are writing like someone I would like to see gather up those
who believe that way and ship out in your own colony, however in the
mean time I suspect you would find large parts of Rural Utah to your
liking based on your expressed sentiments.
I would like to think that Human society is getting more enlightened
and allowing more choices, however with governments getting better at
oppressing the social scapegoats of the day I fear the best chances
free Humanity may have is to create a new society in space
specifically taylored to innovation and personal freeedom.

Don Davis

>(for example, men's wages have fallen for decades in relation to
women's wages--that's how the great leaps forward in women's wages
have been possible, and they are in fact a mirage--and this should stop.

What should stop...Women wanting careers? are you comfortable with
the time of women being valued less than men in the workplace? Should
not someone doing the same job in the same enviornment be paid a
similar amount?

Don